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1.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
anyone try one?? its for the outdoorsman...the "meateater" uses it.. I guess the frame weighs 2 lbs and the whole pack around 7 lbs ...I would rather spend 400 than a 1000.oo bucks on a pack..
2.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
I think my badlands 2200 would do the job.. say carring in all you need in the back country for a week.. food, water, sleeping stuf and clothes.. I think I could get by with about 40 pounds + or-..
3.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
why even spend the money on something i'll probally only use once...
4.) NEBigAl - 03/09/2014
7 lbs is heavy! And you would have serious issues fitting everything you need in a 2200 badlands. For one week 4000 is probably minimum.
5.) NEBigAl - 03/09/2014
Mine is 4750
6.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
I think my badlands weighs 5lbs...I bet I could get enough stuff strap on my badlands for a week hunt...
break it down.
1 sleeping bag. 2lbs.
2 food say 5 lbs
3 tent 4 lbs
4 clothes say 10 lbs
5 whiskey I liter..
6 cigars 2oz's
7 video game 1.8 oz.
8 water you can get at the creek.
break it down.
1 sleeping bag. 2lbs.
2 food say 5 lbs
3 tent 4 lbs
4 clothes say 10 lbs
5 whiskey I liter..
6 cigars 2oz's
7 video game 1.8 oz.
8 water you can get at the creek.
7.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
10 lbs of clothes seems a lot of lbs..
8.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
maybe hang my monster fanny pack with filled with range finder, knifes, and goodies..
its only one week...
its only one week...
9.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
my essentials are food, sleeping quarters, and aqua.'spend youre money wisely..
10.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
.. look at the size of those antlers...
11.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
just think about everyday things that are most important to you in everyday life..whats youre needs...say for instance mine would be a comfortable sleeping system.
then don't forget about going to the bathroom...youre going to need a roll of toilet paper and a tube of preparation-H.. then theres food... that's easy.
.water easy... if theres a beaver pond near by..
then don't forget about going to the bathroom...youre going to need a roll of toilet paper and a tube of preparation-H.. then theres food... that's easy.
.water easy... if theres a beaver pond near by..
12.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
whats a good lightweight sleeping bag.????
13.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
i think I have one of those space blankets I bought 20 years ago when I first went to Colorado..i think I could go to walmart and buy a roll of tin foil and make a better space blanket..
14.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
the space blanket came in a package that was 3 inches by 1 inch...it could fit in your wallet..
15.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
that was just in case you really needed it though..
16.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
its going to suck if I hike in with a 5lb pack or a 7 lb pack..
in a fun way...
in a fun way...
17.) Deerminator - 03/09/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;17661]just think about everyday things that are most important to you in everyday life..whats youre needs...say for instance mine would be a comfortable sleeping system.
then don't forget about going to the bathroom...youre going to need a roll of toilet paper and a tube of preparation-H.. then theres food... that's easy.
.water easy... if theres a beaver pond near by..[/QUOTE]
Beaver ponds carry germs. Must boil.
then don't forget about going to the bathroom...youre going to need a roll of toilet paper and a tube of preparation-H.. then theres food... that's easy.
.water easy... if theres a beaver pond near by..[/QUOTE]
Beaver ponds carry germs. Must boil.
18.) Deerminator - 03/09/2014
Might I suggest;
19.) crookedeye - 03/09/2014
that's what she said..
20.) NEBigAl - 03/10/2014
I have a mountain hardwear lamina sleeping bag, it rocks, its under 200$ folds small and only weighs about 3 lbs. However, I say just go down and you could get under 2 lbs easy. Then you will need a sleeping pad too, self inflating is nice or just a thermacell foam one. Where weight really gets you is just the little stuff.
Knives
Water Filter
Maps and Papers
Hunting Accessories
Water bottles
Cooking supplies (pots and stove, beer can alcohol stove all the way)
utensils
trash
fire starting kit
etc
Knives
Water Filter
Maps and Papers
Hunting Accessories
Water bottles
Cooking supplies (pots and stove, beer can alcohol stove all the way)
utensils
trash
fire starting kit
etc
21.) NEBigAl - 03/10/2014
Crookedeye I ice fished at standing bear for 3 hours today. 7 man limit of trout
22.) bluecat - 03/10/2014
[QUOTE=crookedeye;17657]maybe hang my monster fanny[/QUOTE]
That may be your problem right there.
That may be your problem right there.
23.) Ventilator - 03/10/2014
CE, I Tried to cut weight everywhere I could last year on my trip for 8 days in the backcountry. Except for my 2lb folding chair, it was the bomb! Anyways, I still ended up with 64lbs on the way in with everything. I know now I will leave my rivers west rain gear at home next time. It weighed 5lbs and I never used it. Just too damn hot to walk around in. Id go with thin goretex packable gear instead. Save 3-4lbs. I don't know how you will ever get down to 40lbs for a week. I have since purchased First-lite wool pants ,shirt and jacket with merino base layers. This is all I would take in for clothes in sept. 3 pairs of socks and underwear, merino. Wear one set in and carry two. You will need at least 4500 ci . Try an eberlestock pack. You can get for 300 bucks. Weighs around 6lbs tho. You wont get much lighter without spending 1000 bucks. Ask Dan-o. :)
24.) NEBigAl - 03/10/2014
If I was doing it all over again, I would get a Gregory, ULA or Osprey pack, and spray paint the damn thing camo. I love my eberlestock, but its heavy, and the suspension isnt comparable to a backpack made to take you thousands of miles. Im gonna disagree with Ventilator and say under 40 lbs is definitely do able, ultralight backpackers take everything they need to hike indefinitely (without food weight) and they hit under 15 lbs all day long. However, you need to decide how much you wanna pay for ounces saved, because cost adds up as fast as weight saved!
25.) Swamp Fox - 03/10/2014
For a week with no trips back to the truck for supplies etc. and for [B]hunting[/B] vs. just wandering around hugging trees and talking to the bunnies, I 'd count on 5000 cubic inches as your likely minimum. A good pack of that size should weigh mid-six to mid-seven pounds, maybe eight, maybe a smidge more than that if you're in love with it, but not much more if you're serious about weight. You can get a six-pound pack if you look really hard and/or spend the bucks, probably, but they're not common.
I've always liked the old 25-30%-of-body-weight rule of thumb for optimal fully-loaded packweight. In my opinion, getting down to 25% is ambitious for a week in a comfortable hunting camp, and humping 30% is very ambitious for any off-trail work and as you get older even on trails if there is any grade to them. A good pack that fits you well will allow you to carry more weight, but I see no need to exceed these guideline weights. A heavy pack is no fun, and there's no glory in it.
I've always liked the old 25-30%-of-body-weight rule of thumb for optimal fully-loaded packweight. In my opinion, getting down to 25% is ambitious for a week in a comfortable hunting camp, and humping 30% is very ambitious for any off-trail work and as you get older even on trails if there is any grade to them. A good pack that fits you well will allow you to carry more weight, but I see no need to exceed these guideline weights. A heavy pack is no fun, and there's no glory in it.
26.) Deerminator - 03/10/2014
My packs always got lighter as the trip progressed.
27.) Ventilator - 03/10/2014
Go in heavy and come out heavier. .lol
28.) NEBigAl - 03/10/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;17715]For a week with no trips back to the truck for supplies etc. and for [B]hunting[/B] vs. just wandering around hugging trees and talking to the bunnies, I 'd count on 5000 cubic inches as your likely minimum. A good pack of that size should weigh mid-six to mid-seven pounds, maybe eight, maybe a smidge more than that if you're in love with it, but not much more if you're serious about weight. You can get a six-pound pack if you look really hard and/or spend the bucks, probably, but they're not common.
I've always liked the old 25-30%-of-body-weight rule of thumb for optimal fully-loaded packweight. In my opinion, getting down to 25% is ambitious for a week in a comfortable hunting camp, and humping 30% is very ambitious for any off-trail work and as you get older even on trails if there is any grade to them. A good pack that fits you well will allow you to carry more weight, but I see no need to exceed these guideline weights. A heavy pack is no fun, and there's no glory in it.[/QUOTE]
What extra things do you need for hunting 7 days rather than backpacking 7 days? Bow, knives, calls. All can be done for about 7-8lbs probably (unless you have a Hoyt). What other differences do you see between backpacks for hunting vs ones for backpacking?
I've always liked the old 25-30%-of-body-weight rule of thumb for optimal fully-loaded packweight. In my opinion, getting down to 25% is ambitious for a week in a comfortable hunting camp, and humping 30% is very ambitious for any off-trail work and as you get older even on trails if there is any grade to them. A good pack that fits you well will allow you to carry more weight, but I see no need to exceed these guideline weights. A heavy pack is no fun, and there's no glory in it.[/QUOTE]
What extra things do you need for hunting 7 days rather than backpacking 7 days? Bow, knives, calls. All can be done for about 7-8lbs probably (unless you have a Hoyt). What other differences do you see between backpacks for hunting vs ones for backpacking?
29.) NEBigAl - 03/10/2014
[QUOTE=Deerminator;17719]My packs always got lighter as the trip progressed.[/QUOTE]
It really helps you realize what you actually need versus what you thought you did!
It really helps you realize what you actually need versus what you thought you did!
30.) DParker - 03/10/2014
[QUOTE=NEBigAl;17736]It really helps you realize what you actually need versus what you thought you did![/QUOTE]
Everything else is negotiable.
Everything else is negotiable.
31.) Deerminator - 03/10/2014
..:grin:
32.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
[QUOTE=NEBigAl;17735]What extra things do you need for hunting 7 days rather than backpacking 7 days? Bow, knives, calls. All can be done for about 7-8lbs probably (unless you have a Hoyt). What other differences do you see between backpacks for hunting vs ones for backpacking?[/QUOTE]
Generally, I think the majority of backpacking packs are built better (suspension system, frame, weight, etc.) than the majority that are marketed for "hunting." There are always the two or three that are exceptions to the rule. I would like to see what Badlands, as a leader in the hunting packs market, has done on their pack which replaces the 4500, for instance. Whether it is a step up or a step down will be an interesting indication to me. I know it's three pounds lighter, LOL, but whether it is "better" I won't be able to tell until I can get my hands on one.
The other major difference between "hunting" packs and "backpack" rigs that I see is the general disregard in the hunting pack market for sizing your pack to your individual measurements. If you like Model A in a backpacking bag, you can get it in your size. It's very rare that a particular pack is made in different sizes in the hunting market. I believe even Badlands has quit doing it. if someone else is doing it, I'd like to know. Obviously, the fact that 95% of "hunting packs" are day packs (even glorified bookbags, LOL) has a lot to do with this. Once you get up to 2800- 3000 cu of capacity or so, you ought to be able to size your frame, though. Either that or work very hard to get lucky to find a one-size-fits-all pack that fits you well.
All that said, there are a couple of what I'll call technical packs targeted to hunters by companies that do not make their biggest splash in the hunting market. Forget about military sales for a minute. That's not what I mean. I mean companies that have strong backpacking backgrounds and have decided to put some effort into building high quality hunting packs as part of their product line. Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are in this group. Those are the "names" in this category. There are maybe one or two others that you rarely hear of.
To the first part of your question: The comparison is a little off because even when I used to backpack a lot, I'd rarely go out for more than three days bunny-hugging. When I'd go out hunting, it was usually for four days or more, with a lot of five and six-day trips. This to me means a different camp in the first place, but hunting always involves bringing gear you wouldn't bring on other trips.
A few of the differences for a hunting packlist vs. a non-hunting pack that I can think of off the top of my head:
Weapon
Weapon repair tools, ammo, extra broadheads, etc.
More food, and denser (heavier by volume). I can get by on fewer calories in a non-hunting camp. A "cold camp" vs. a camp with fire is a whole different discussion.
More water or water gear, possibly (Depends on whether your base camp is near a source or not.) Bunny hugging, you can always pack up and move down the trail for water when you need to. When I'd hunt-camp, my camp was set in place.
Knife and related gear goes up (second knife, hone)
Optics
Fanny or small hunting pack (assuming your backpack doesn't have a detachable unit for this purpose)
Saw and pruner, marking tape, etc.
Rope and pulley, extra lights and batteries (game retrieval, etc.)
Game bags, garbage bags
Scent control items (extra wipes, soap, etc.)
Gloves, fresh hat, other change of clothes which wouldn't be brought on a non-hunting trip
A bigger tent with fly (keep gear dry, dress in the tent at 4 AM cold, lol)
Heavier (warmer) sleeping bag during a lot of the hunting season (Have never been a fan of cutting weight with down.)
I'm sure there's other stuff if I thought really hard, but we're well-past seven or eight extra pounds already, LOL.
Generally, I think the majority of backpacking packs are built better (suspension system, frame, weight, etc.) than the majority that are marketed for "hunting." There are always the two or three that are exceptions to the rule. I would like to see what Badlands, as a leader in the hunting packs market, has done on their pack which replaces the 4500, for instance. Whether it is a step up or a step down will be an interesting indication to me. I know it's three pounds lighter, LOL, but whether it is "better" I won't be able to tell until I can get my hands on one.
The other major difference between "hunting" packs and "backpack" rigs that I see is the general disregard in the hunting pack market for sizing your pack to your individual measurements. If you like Model A in a backpacking bag, you can get it in your size. It's very rare that a particular pack is made in different sizes in the hunting market. I believe even Badlands has quit doing it. if someone else is doing it, I'd like to know. Obviously, the fact that 95% of "hunting packs" are day packs (even glorified bookbags, LOL) has a lot to do with this. Once you get up to 2800- 3000 cu of capacity or so, you ought to be able to size your frame, though. Either that or work very hard to get lucky to find a one-size-fits-all pack that fits you well.
All that said, there are a couple of what I'll call technical packs targeted to hunters by companies that do not make their biggest splash in the hunting market. Forget about military sales for a minute. That's not what I mean. I mean companies that have strong backpacking backgrounds and have decided to put some effort into building high quality hunting packs as part of their product line. Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are in this group. Those are the "names" in this category. There are maybe one or two others that you rarely hear of.
To the first part of your question: The comparison is a little off because even when I used to backpack a lot, I'd rarely go out for more than three days bunny-hugging. When I'd go out hunting, it was usually for four days or more, with a lot of five and six-day trips. This to me means a different camp in the first place, but hunting always involves bringing gear you wouldn't bring on other trips.
A few of the differences for a hunting packlist vs. a non-hunting pack that I can think of off the top of my head:
Weapon
Weapon repair tools, ammo, extra broadheads, etc.
More food, and denser (heavier by volume). I can get by on fewer calories in a non-hunting camp. A "cold camp" vs. a camp with fire is a whole different discussion.
More water or water gear, possibly (Depends on whether your base camp is near a source or not.) Bunny hugging, you can always pack up and move down the trail for water when you need to. When I'd hunt-camp, my camp was set in place.
Knife and related gear goes up (second knife, hone)
Optics
Fanny or small hunting pack (assuming your backpack doesn't have a detachable unit for this purpose)
Saw and pruner, marking tape, etc.
Rope and pulley, extra lights and batteries (game retrieval, etc.)
Game bags, garbage bags
Scent control items (extra wipes, soap, etc.)
Gloves, fresh hat, other change of clothes which wouldn't be brought on a non-hunting trip
A bigger tent with fly (keep gear dry, dress in the tent at 4 AM cold, lol)
Heavier (warmer) sleeping bag during a lot of the hunting season (Have never been a fan of cutting weight with down.)
I'm sure there's other stuff if I thought really hard, but we're well-past seven or eight extra pounds already, LOL.
33.) Deerminator - 03/11/2014
Also some extra things. Things you already have but good to have an EXTRA incase ya loose or break the original thing.
eg; glasses or a release / finger tab
eg; glasses or a release / finger tab
34.) NEBigAl - 03/11/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;17747]Generally, I think the majority of backpacking packs are built better (suspension system, frame, weight, etc.) than the majority that are marketed for "hunting." There are always the two or three that are exceptions to the rule. I would like to see what Badlands, as a leader in the hunting packs market, has done on their pack which replaces the 4500, for instance. Whether it is a step up or a step down will be an interesting indication to me. I know it's three pounds lighter, LOL, but whether it is "better" I won't be able to tell until I can get my hands on one.
The other major difference between "hunting" packs and "backpack" rigs that I see is the general disregard in the hunting pack market for sizing your pack to your individual measurements. If you like Model A in a backpacking bag, you can get it in your size. It's very rare that a particular pack is made in different sizes in the hunting market. I believe even Badlands has quit doing it. if someone else is doing it, I'd like to know. Obviously, the fact that 95% of "hunting packs" are day packs (even glorified bookbags, LOL) has a lot to do with this. Once you get up to 2800- 3000 cu of capacity or so, you ought to be able to size your frame, though. Either that or work very hard to get lucky to find a one-size-fits-all pack that fits you well.
All that said, there are a couple of what I'll call technical packs targeted to hunters by companies that do not make their biggest splash in the hunting market. Forget about military sales for a minute. That's not what I mean. I mean companies that have strong backpacking backgrounds and have decided to put some effort into building high quality hunting packs as part of their product line. Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are in this group. Those are the "names" in this category. There are maybe one or two others that you rarely hear of.
To the first part of your question: The comparison is a little off because even when I used to backpack a lot, I'd rarely go out for more than three days bunny-hugging. When I'd go out hunting, it was usually for four days or more, with a lot of five and six-day trips. This to me means a different camp in the first place, but hunting always involves bringing gear you wouldn't bring on other trips.
A few of the differences for a hunting packlist vs. a non-hunting pack that I can think of off the top of my head:
Weapon
Weapon repair tools, ammo, extra broadheads, etc.
More food, and denser (heavier by volume). I can get by on fewer calories in a non-hunting camp. A "cold camp" vs. a camp with fire is a whole different discussion.
More water or water gear, possibly (Depends on whether your base camp is near a source or not.) Bunny hugging, you can always pack up and move down the trail for water when you need to. When I'd hunt-camp, my camp was set in place.
Knife and related gear goes up (second knife, hone)
Optics
Fanny or small hunting pack (assuming your backpack doesn't have a detachable unit for this purpose)
Saw and pruner, marking tape, etc.
Rope and pulley, extra lights and batteries (game retrieval, etc.)
Game bags, garbage bags
Scent control items (extra wipes, soap, etc.)
Gloves, fresh hat, other change of clothes which wouldn't be brought on a non-hunting trip
A bigger tent with fly (keep gear dry, dress in the tent at 4 AM cold, lol)
Heavier (warmer) sleeping bag during a lot of the hunting season (Have never been a fan of cutting weight with down.)
I'm sure there's other stuff if I thought really hard, but we're well-past seven or eight extra pounds already, LOL.[/QUOTE]
I own a badlands backpack, and I have to say I am not impressed for the money at all!
Not all of us need that extra stuff!
I got the three allen wrenches that can do everything on my bow-5ish ounces?
Water-I carry the same amount no matter what Im doing. Sawyer squeeze is the bomb!
I have one knife to do everything, to me the extra weight is not worth the redundancy if you are just packing meat out!
Optics-Depending what Im doing I may or may not bring them. This is where you may have me on weight, figure 3 lbs for em!
Saw/pruner-dont need. Im not going to be cutting trees down, anything small I can use my knife for
Marking tape, 10 yards, weight is negligible
Rope/pulley-dont need with you
Game bags-couple ounces-1/3 of a pound maybe?
"Shower Wipes"- I prefer au naturale! But I do take some of those walmart scent wipes in a plastic bag, dont weigh a ton.
Tent-I can get dressed in my tent that weighs 3 lbs easy! Have you seen those tarptents? Weigh a little over a pound and are more than enough to wiggle into your clothes in
Sleeping bag- You can get a 0-20 degree down bag around 3 lbs, some even lighter.
I may have been slightly off the 8 lb mark for most hunters, but for myself personally I have it down! I try and cut out as much redundancy (dont bring anything that only does one thing) as I can.
It sounds to me like you have more of a setup for setting up a spike camp a few miles in, I prefer to keep everything with me and stay mobile!
I'm not trying to be argumentative at all here! And if you think backpackers are out there "bunny hugging" then you should talk to people who have hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, the Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Appalachian, etc. Those are a tough group!
The other major difference between "hunting" packs and "backpack" rigs that I see is the general disregard in the hunting pack market for sizing your pack to your individual measurements. If you like Model A in a backpacking bag, you can get it in your size. It's very rare that a particular pack is made in different sizes in the hunting market. I believe even Badlands has quit doing it. if someone else is doing it, I'd like to know. Obviously, the fact that 95% of "hunting packs" are day packs (even glorified bookbags, LOL) has a lot to do with this. Once you get up to 2800- 3000 cu of capacity or so, you ought to be able to size your frame, though. Either that or work very hard to get lucky to find a one-size-fits-all pack that fits you well.
All that said, there are a couple of what I'll call technical packs targeted to hunters by companies that do not make their biggest splash in the hunting market. Forget about military sales for a minute. That's not what I mean. I mean companies that have strong backpacking backgrounds and have decided to put some effort into building high quality hunting packs as part of their product line. Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are in this group. Those are the "names" in this category. There are maybe one or two others that you rarely hear of.
To the first part of your question: The comparison is a little off because even when I used to backpack a lot, I'd rarely go out for more than three days bunny-hugging. When I'd go out hunting, it was usually for four days or more, with a lot of five and six-day trips. This to me means a different camp in the first place, but hunting always involves bringing gear you wouldn't bring on other trips.
A few of the differences for a hunting packlist vs. a non-hunting pack that I can think of off the top of my head:
Weapon
Weapon repair tools, ammo, extra broadheads, etc.
More food, and denser (heavier by volume). I can get by on fewer calories in a non-hunting camp. A "cold camp" vs. a camp with fire is a whole different discussion.
More water or water gear, possibly (Depends on whether your base camp is near a source or not.) Bunny hugging, you can always pack up and move down the trail for water when you need to. When I'd hunt-camp, my camp was set in place.
Knife and related gear goes up (second knife, hone)
Optics
Fanny or small hunting pack (assuming your backpack doesn't have a detachable unit for this purpose)
Saw and pruner, marking tape, etc.
Rope and pulley, extra lights and batteries (game retrieval, etc.)
Game bags, garbage bags
Scent control items (extra wipes, soap, etc.)
Gloves, fresh hat, other change of clothes which wouldn't be brought on a non-hunting trip
A bigger tent with fly (keep gear dry, dress in the tent at 4 AM cold, lol)
Heavier (warmer) sleeping bag during a lot of the hunting season (Have never been a fan of cutting weight with down.)
I'm sure there's other stuff if I thought really hard, but we're well-past seven or eight extra pounds already, LOL.[/QUOTE]
I own a badlands backpack, and I have to say I am not impressed for the money at all!
Not all of us need that extra stuff!
I got the three allen wrenches that can do everything on my bow-5ish ounces?
Water-I carry the same amount no matter what Im doing. Sawyer squeeze is the bomb!
I have one knife to do everything, to me the extra weight is not worth the redundancy if you are just packing meat out!
Optics-Depending what Im doing I may or may not bring them. This is where you may have me on weight, figure 3 lbs for em!
Saw/pruner-dont need. Im not going to be cutting trees down, anything small I can use my knife for
Marking tape, 10 yards, weight is negligible
Rope/pulley-dont need with you
Game bags-couple ounces-1/3 of a pound maybe?
"Shower Wipes"- I prefer au naturale! But I do take some of those walmart scent wipes in a plastic bag, dont weigh a ton.
Tent-I can get dressed in my tent that weighs 3 lbs easy! Have you seen those tarptents? Weigh a little over a pound and are more than enough to wiggle into your clothes in
Sleeping bag- You can get a 0-20 degree down bag around 3 lbs, some even lighter.
I may have been slightly off the 8 lb mark for most hunters, but for myself personally I have it down! I try and cut out as much redundancy (dont bring anything that only does one thing) as I can.
It sounds to me like you have more of a setup for setting up a spike camp a few miles in, I prefer to keep everything with me and stay mobile!
I'm not trying to be argumentative at all here! And if you think backpackers are out there "bunny hugging" then you should talk to people who have hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, the Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Appalachian, etc. Those are a tough group!
35.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
Excellent point, Deerminator. Sometimes I would leave an extra release at the truck, sometimes I would carry it with. I usually kept a spare sight at the truck. If I was hunting with fiber optic sights on my turkey gun, I'd leave a spare barrel with different sights at the truck. I seem to be hard on FO's during turkey season. The smarter play would be to either not use FO at all (which was my usual choice) or to carry a spare set of pre-sighted FO front and rears in my pack, along with the appropriate teeny-tiny allen wrench, which I was never all that motivated to do, for some reason.
36.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
[QUOTE=NEBigAl;17753]I own a badlands backpack, and I have to say I am not impressed for the money at all!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]You have to pick your items, for sure.[/COLOR]
Not all of us need that extra stuff!
I got the three allen wrenches that can do everything on my bow-5ish ounces?
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Change a string? Knock a mudplug out of a gun barrel? [/COLOR]
Water-I carry the same amount no matter what Im doing. Sawyer squeeze is the bomb!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]See spike camp vs. base camp comments above and below. I never planned to move to water when hunting. Non-hunt packing, yes. Hunt-camping, no.[/COLOR]
I have one knife to do everything, to me the extra weight is not worth the redundancy if you are just packing meat out!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]I'm a two-knife kinda guy for hunt-camps, minimum. :wink Game knives are not the best camp knives, and vice versa. [/COLOR]
Optics-Depending what I'm doing I may or may not bring them. This is where you may have me on weight, figure 3 lbs for em!
Saw/pruner-dont need. Im not going to be cutting trees down, anything small I can use my knife for
Marking tape, 10 yards, weight is negligible
[COLOR="#FF0000"]From what I can tell, there isn't a lot of wood to cut in Nebraska in the first place, LOL. These tools come in handy for my type of hunting, and also around camp. [/COLOR]
Rope/pulley-dont need with you
Game bags-couple ounces-1/3 of a pound maybe?
[COLOR="#FF0000"]It all adds up. Having the rope and pulley with you comes in extremely handy if your deer is down in a ravine or steep ditch or on the wrong side of a knob that is your only exit. It royally sucks to have to hike back to the truck for a one-pound item just so you can hump all the way back to get your animal out of a hole before you hump all the way back to the truck again, LOL.
[/COLOR]
"Shower Wipes"- I prefer au naturale! But I do take some of those walmart scent wipes in a plastic bag, dont weigh a ton.
Tent-I can get dressed in my tent that weighs 3 lbs easy! Have you seen those tarptents? Weigh a little over a pound and are more than enough to wiggle into your clothes in
Sleeping bag- You can get a 0-20 degree down bag around 3 lbs, some even lighter.
I may have been slightly off the 8 lb mark for most hunters, but for myself personally I have it down! I try and cut out as much redundancy (dont bring anything that only does one thing) as I can.
It sounds to me like you have more of a setup for setting up a spike camp a few miles in, I prefer to keep everything with me and stay mobile!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Once I set up camp, I'm done. There's not enough room here to bivy hunt, and really no need to. At least not intentionally.
[/COLOR]I'm not trying to be argumentative at all here! And if you think backpackers are out there "bunny hugging" then you should talk to people who have hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, the Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Appalachian, etc. Those are a tough group!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Buncha berry-pickers. :wink "If you don't hunt, you ain't $#!+"
[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
:fire:.....
[COLOR="#FF0000"]You have to pick your items, for sure.[/COLOR]
Not all of us need that extra stuff!
I got the three allen wrenches that can do everything on my bow-5ish ounces?
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Change a string? Knock a mudplug out of a gun barrel? [/COLOR]
Water-I carry the same amount no matter what Im doing. Sawyer squeeze is the bomb!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]See spike camp vs. base camp comments above and below. I never planned to move to water when hunting. Non-hunt packing, yes. Hunt-camping, no.[/COLOR]
I have one knife to do everything, to me the extra weight is not worth the redundancy if you are just packing meat out!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]I'm a two-knife kinda guy for hunt-camps, minimum. :wink Game knives are not the best camp knives, and vice versa. [/COLOR]
Optics-Depending what I'm doing I may or may not bring them. This is where you may have me on weight, figure 3 lbs for em!
Saw/pruner-dont need. Im not going to be cutting trees down, anything small I can use my knife for
Marking tape, 10 yards, weight is negligible
[COLOR="#FF0000"]From what I can tell, there isn't a lot of wood to cut in Nebraska in the first place, LOL. These tools come in handy for my type of hunting, and also around camp. [/COLOR]
Rope/pulley-dont need with you
Game bags-couple ounces-1/3 of a pound maybe?
[COLOR="#FF0000"]It all adds up. Having the rope and pulley with you comes in extremely handy if your deer is down in a ravine or steep ditch or on the wrong side of a knob that is your only exit. It royally sucks to have to hike back to the truck for a one-pound item just so you can hump all the way back to get your animal out of a hole before you hump all the way back to the truck again, LOL.
[/COLOR]
"Shower Wipes"- I prefer au naturale! But I do take some of those walmart scent wipes in a plastic bag, dont weigh a ton.
Tent-I can get dressed in my tent that weighs 3 lbs easy! Have you seen those tarptents? Weigh a little over a pound and are more than enough to wiggle into your clothes in
Sleeping bag- You can get a 0-20 degree down bag around 3 lbs, some even lighter.
I may have been slightly off the 8 lb mark for most hunters, but for myself personally I have it down! I try and cut out as much redundancy (dont bring anything that only does one thing) as I can.
It sounds to me like you have more of a setup for setting up a spike camp a few miles in, I prefer to keep everything with me and stay mobile!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Once I set up camp, I'm done. There's not enough room here to bivy hunt, and really no need to. At least not intentionally.
[/COLOR]I'm not trying to be argumentative at all here! And if you think backpackers are out there "bunny hugging" then you should talk to people who have hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, the Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Appalachian, etc. Those are a tough group!
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Buncha berry-pickers. :wink "If you don't hunt, you ain't $#!+"
[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
:fire:.....
37.) Jon - 03/11/2014
One guy says 8lbs, the other says 25% of body weight. I'll backpack with neither of you thanks! If you are really arguing over an extra release or a few wipes, this argument is invalid!
38.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
Jon, you can go up to 30% if you want...LOL
39.) Jon - 03/11/2014
I wouldn't want to carry YOUR 30% Swampy, that's allot of weight. My 30% is just dumb!
40.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
LOL...Even I don't want to carry my 30%,...:-)
"Well, I have all your equipment in my locker...You should probably come get it, 'cause I can't fit my numbchucks in there anymore..."
:laugh::laugh:
"Well, I have all your equipment in my locker...You should probably come get it, 'cause I can't fit my numbchucks in there anymore..."
:laugh::laugh:
41.) Deerminator - 03/11/2014
Who's bring'n ther beer?:buds:
42.) bluecat - 03/11/2014
From the sound of it, it better be Lite beer.
43.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
Bluecat, you could be drinking whole if you wanted to...
)
)
44.) bluecat - 03/11/2014
:lol:
45.) NEBigAl - 03/11/2014
bluecat grandma called and said to stop eating all of our steak and ruining everyone's lives
46.) Swamp Fox - 03/11/2014
LOL...
:p
:p
47.) bluecat - 03/12/2014
[QUOTE=NEBigAl;17773]bluecat grandma called and said to stop eating all of our steak and ruining everyone's lives[/QUOTE]
bug eater
bug eater
48.) Swamp Fox - 03/12/2014
Back to Crookedeye's original question, I don't find a lot of helpful reviews on that pack but I didn't look really hard, either. I don't think there's any substitute for trying a pack out before deciding whether or not you like it/it will do the job you need done.
If you can find a store or a dealer that will let you try on a pack and load it with sandbags and let you walk around a little, that's ideal. Some places will rent you a bag for a weekend so you can take it on the trail, too. The hard part will be finding a dealer for that particular pack that will do either. Rentals are a trail shop kinda thing, but maybe you can find that kind of pack in a trail shop out there. Not much chance of it around here. It's 99.999% internals around here, and none of them come in camo, if you know what I mean.
I would also be a little leery of an external-frame pack like that if there is much off-trail trekking or much climbing to do. I know some externals are supposed to have gotten better at this lately, with their shaped frames, but still...The last time I used an external off-trail in the mountains it nearly killed me, LOL...It was beating me up pretty good on steep trails, as well. :shocked:
This was back in the day when the conventional wisdom was that externals were best for heavy loads, and that internals couldn't compete. The truth is that that's not true across the board anymore, but you still often hear it as a blanket statement (though it's not the overwhelming opinion that it used to be).
I'd point out two things from a little experience with both styles: First, most people don't want to/can't carry a load that approaches the weight capacity of an external pack, and I and most other sane people don't even want to hump a load that exceeds the weight capacity of a good 5000 cubic inch internal, so some of this debate is irrelevant nonsense---And second, I wonder if the people who say an external is a better hauler are really thinking of the same type of terrain as I am.
I think about pulling mine out of retirement every once in a while to see if I can put it to a better use than as a dust collector, but no luck so far. Maybe I'll make it one of my special projects this year... :pop:
If you can find a store or a dealer that will let you try on a pack and load it with sandbags and let you walk around a little, that's ideal. Some places will rent you a bag for a weekend so you can take it on the trail, too. The hard part will be finding a dealer for that particular pack that will do either. Rentals are a trail shop kinda thing, but maybe you can find that kind of pack in a trail shop out there. Not much chance of it around here. It's 99.999% internals around here, and none of them come in camo, if you know what I mean.
I would also be a little leery of an external-frame pack like that if there is much off-trail trekking or much climbing to do. I know some externals are supposed to have gotten better at this lately, with their shaped frames, but still...The last time I used an external off-trail in the mountains it nearly killed me, LOL...It was beating me up pretty good on steep trails, as well. :shocked:
This was back in the day when the conventional wisdom was that externals were best for heavy loads, and that internals couldn't compete. The truth is that that's not true across the board anymore, but you still often hear it as a blanket statement (though it's not the overwhelming opinion that it used to be).
I'd point out two things from a little experience with both styles: First, most people don't want to/can't carry a load that approaches the weight capacity of an external pack, and I and most other sane people don't even want to hump a load that exceeds the weight capacity of a good 5000 cubic inch internal, so some of this debate is irrelevant nonsense---And second, I wonder if the people who say an external is a better hauler are really thinking of the same type of terrain as I am.
I think about pulling mine out of retirement every once in a while to see if I can put it to a better use than as a dust collector, but no luck so far. Maybe I'll make it one of my special projects this year... :pop:
49.) bluecat - 03/12/2014
Swampy, going back through the thread, you mentioned two pack makers you recommend: (Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are in this group.)
Without having looked at their lineup, do these manufacturers make a pack that you could pack some meat out in or is that a separate question? I would like to get a pack on your suggestion that holds some gear but if I shot something, I wouldn't have to go back to the car to get a meat pack. Do they make such an animal or are packs too specialized.
Thank you, I'll hang up and listen.
Without having looked at their lineup, do these manufacturers make a pack that you could pack some meat out in or is that a separate question? I would like to get a pack on your suggestion that holds some gear but if I shot something, I wouldn't have to go back to the car to get a meat pack. Do they make such an animal or are packs too specialized.
Thank you, I'll hang up and listen.
50.) Swamp Fox - 03/12/2014
Specialization, if you want to call it that, is really in how good the suspension and frame system is. Any pack or frame will haul meat, it's just a matter of how much of a PITA it is, and how comfortable.
Some packs have an external or removable frame that you can lash meat to, and this means you might not even carry the bag. Just go in or out with the frame. These frames should have a shelf. It's a bit of a science to lash gamebags to an open frame and make a full load, so I quit doing it. Meat goes in the bag, now, though for some reason I still carry an open frame in the truck sometimes (doesn't take up a lot of room) and it DOESN'T have a shelf. The idea is I can use it for small loads if I want to. Somebody not as lazy or impatient as me can certainly lash gamebags to any kind of frame with a little practice and enough cord. It's not rocket surgery.
Both Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are spendy, but they are well made. Both will sell you the frame separately from the pack if you want to build in pieces. I don't think you can go wrong with a system like that. The pack Crookedeye is talking about can be used frame-alone, as well.
As to internal-frame packs, there's nothing special about hauling meat, beyond making sure you have a pack of the size and weight capacity you need (and are willing to wash your pack when you're done, LOL).
Packs do have load ratings, so when shopping, look for that info. Just because two bags are X cubic inches doesn't mean they can carry the same weight loads.
Off the top of my head, I'd say you need something like 2800 cubic inches to haul out a bone-in deer, maybe a little more for a Midwestern monster. Not saying this wouldn't involve lashing some meat to the outside. The head and cape or the hide are definitely going on the outside. Check to see if a pack of this capacity is built too narrow to take back quarters bone-in. Some are.
I'll see if I can find someone on the internet who thinks differently than I do on capacity and report back if it looks like I'm off on that. When I have carried deer out, it's been in packs larger than 2800 for bone-in, and I know 2800 is no problem boned-out, so that's why I'm fudging.
Some systems will let you carry your hunting gear separate from your meat, and I've always liked that idea. I guess it's not a big deal to others if everything is in the same compartment.
If I missed a question you have, let me know, but I hope that helps.
Some packs have an external or removable frame that you can lash meat to, and this means you might not even carry the bag. Just go in or out with the frame. These frames should have a shelf. It's a bit of a science to lash gamebags to an open frame and make a full load, so I quit doing it. Meat goes in the bag, now, though for some reason I still carry an open frame in the truck sometimes (doesn't take up a lot of room) and it DOESN'T have a shelf. The idea is I can use it for small loads if I want to. Somebody not as lazy or impatient as me can certainly lash gamebags to any kind of frame with a little practice and enough cord. It's not rocket surgery.
Both Mystery Ranch and Kifaru are spendy, but they are well made. Both will sell you the frame separately from the pack if you want to build in pieces. I don't think you can go wrong with a system like that. The pack Crookedeye is talking about can be used frame-alone, as well.
As to internal-frame packs, there's nothing special about hauling meat, beyond making sure you have a pack of the size and weight capacity you need (and are willing to wash your pack when you're done, LOL).
Packs do have load ratings, so when shopping, look for that info. Just because two bags are X cubic inches doesn't mean they can carry the same weight loads.
Off the top of my head, I'd say you need something like 2800 cubic inches to haul out a bone-in deer, maybe a little more for a Midwestern monster. Not saying this wouldn't involve lashing some meat to the outside. The head and cape or the hide are definitely going on the outside. Check to see if a pack of this capacity is built too narrow to take back quarters bone-in. Some are.
I'll see if I can find someone on the internet who thinks differently than I do on capacity and report back if it looks like I'm off on that. When I have carried deer out, it's been in packs larger than 2800 for bone-in, and I know 2800 is no problem boned-out, so that's why I'm fudging.
Some systems will let you carry your hunting gear separate from your meat, and I've always liked that idea. I guess it's not a big deal to others if everything is in the same compartment.
If I missed a question you have, let me know, but I hope that helps.
51.) bluecat - 03/12/2014
spank you very much!
52.) Swamp Fox - 03/12/2014
And the short answer, in case I didn't really hit the nail on the head above, is that yes, both Mystery Ranch and Kifaru make packs that can serve as meat haulers, with or without carrying your hunting gear on the same load.
As an alternative to those two and that price range, look for packs with substantial outside pockets to separate gear from meat, including MOLLE-type add-on systems.
And on a lot of frames, you can hang your favorite existing backpack on them, thus putting off a purchase of a new bag instead of buying at the same time as you spring for the frame. The frame is for hauling meat, and the pack is for your gear.
As an alternative to those two and that price range, look for packs with substantial outside pockets to separate gear from meat, including MOLLE-type add-on systems.
And on a lot of frames, you can hang your favorite existing backpack on them, thus putting off a purchase of a new bag instead of buying at the same time as you spring for the frame. The frame is for hauling meat, and the pack is for your gear.
53.) Ventilator - 03/12/2014
Dan-O has a Kifaru. It is widely known in the elk packing world that a Kifaru is THE PACK for the job. They are very light, very strong, very awesome and very expensive. However , its a one and done pack for backcountry hunting. 4lbs or thereabouts and its made for 100-125lbs loads. Also, its a custom sized pack to your frame. Takes a few months to receive. Its the Holy Grail of packs.
54.) Swamp Fox - 03/12/2014
And just one other thought before I have to leave you all to go get beer:
If you're looking for external frame packs, I'd definitely stick with the ones that are targeted toward hunters for load hauling, and which seem to be more technical. My semi-informed opinion is that buying a "consumer" external frame is just asking for trouble for any semi-serious kind of backpacking.
Consumer internals are a different story. There are a bunch that would make good backpack-hunting packs and a decent number that would make good meat haulers. These top choices will run the gamut from much less expensive than the Holy Grail, to only slightly less expensive. Point being that you can get a kick-ass internal frame pack for much less than a [I]top-end[/I] hunting external.
I have used a bunch of different Gregory packs for a long time, and highly recommend them. The other company I like from experience is Arc'teryx. Their packs are built well, selection is good, the company is what you want it to be, but they are on the high-end side of things. It pays to shop around on them.
In fact, I'd suggest anyone looking for a good pack to start by getting sized at a trail shop, trying a few on (loaded with some weight), learning about frames and suspensions and weight ratings, and then looking on ebay for what you want. You will sometimes find a steal--more often you'll just get a pretty good discount---on used, barely used or discontinued packs. Since most people don't know how to buy packs, or find out backpacking isn't for them on that very first trip, there's a lot of good equipment out there for sale.
Of course, if the price at the trail shop isn't highly inflated (it often is) and they have what you want, buy from them, especially if the salespeople know what they're talking about and are not just glorified cashiers. They will earn their money fitting you properly, showing you some tricks about loading the pack, etc.
If you're looking for external frame packs, I'd definitely stick with the ones that are targeted toward hunters for load hauling, and which seem to be more technical. My semi-informed opinion is that buying a "consumer" external frame is just asking for trouble for any semi-serious kind of backpacking.
Consumer internals are a different story. There are a bunch that would make good backpack-hunting packs and a decent number that would make good meat haulers. These top choices will run the gamut from much less expensive than the Holy Grail, to only slightly less expensive. Point being that you can get a kick-ass internal frame pack for much less than a [I]top-end[/I] hunting external.
I have used a bunch of different Gregory packs for a long time, and highly recommend them. The other company I like from experience is Arc'teryx. Their packs are built well, selection is good, the company is what you want it to be, but they are on the high-end side of things. It pays to shop around on them.
In fact, I'd suggest anyone looking for a good pack to start by getting sized at a trail shop, trying a few on (loaded with some weight), learning about frames and suspensions and weight ratings, and then looking on ebay for what you want. You will sometimes find a steal--more often you'll just get a pretty good discount---on used, barely used or discontinued packs. Since most people don't know how to buy packs, or find out backpacking isn't for them on that very first trip, there's a lot of good equipment out there for sale.
Of course, if the price at the trail shop isn't highly inflated (it often is) and they have what you want, buy from them, especially if the salespeople know what they're talking about and are not just glorified cashiers. They will earn their money fitting you properly, showing you some tricks about loading the pack, etc.
55.) NEBigAl - 03/13/2014
I agree with Swampy, Arc'teryx packs are sweet, but damn are they pricy! If you are wanting to backpack hunt, and take everything with you, I would shy away from external frame. If you are wanting to hike a couple miles and carry a bunch with you, then go external frame.
Next time you're in Kansas City go to REI and have them help you with some packs, or try that Backwoods Omaha store, they are knowledgeable people!
Next time you're in Kansas City go to REI and have them help you with some packs, or try that Backwoods Omaha store, they are knowledgeable people!
56.) p-pumped - 03/25/2014
You wont want to put 100+ pounds in the "bikini" frame Dan-O has. However the standard Kifaru frame and pack may be the best out there for heavy hauling and a decent(70-80#) daily. The biggest complaint i hear from big bag Kifaru users is that they have to yardsale their shit on the mountainside to find things, they have some better bag designs coming out. you could not pay me enough to try and do a backcountry pack hunt with either a eberlestock or badlands. If your pack isnt great, your hunt will be tough, typical backcountry supplies for a week are between 70+80 pounds not including water
look into external frame packs and a bag you like, my next one will be a Barneys frame pack with a bag.
look into external frame packs and a bag you like, my next one will be a Barneys frame pack with a bag.
57.) Swamp Fox - 03/26/2014
[QUOTE=p-pumped;18169]You wont want to put 100+ pounds in the "bikini" frame Dan-O has.
[/QUOTE]
I thought the bikini and the full frame were rated for the same load (100 #? )? Stripping down the bikini to make it lighter makes it less comfy, though?
[/QUOTE]
I thought the bikini and the full frame were rated for the same load (100 #? )? Stripping down the bikini to make it lighter makes it less comfy, though?
58.) Deerminator - 03/26/2014
What exactly are you guys talk'n bout
59.) Deerminator - 03/26/2014
Where's the bikinis
60.) Ventilator - 03/26/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;18197]I thought the bikini and the full frame were rated for the same load (100 #? )? Stripping down the bikini to make it lighter makes it less comfy, though?[/QUOTE]
Aaron, over on the rokslide forum, routinely packs 100-125lbs on his kifaru every elk season, bear season, sheep season...etc. However, im not sure which version he is using. I thought Dan-O had the regular big version. He may have the bikini as I haven't looked at it in a while. they don't have any organization compartments tho, that's true. Its all one open area. My Eberlestock J34 with expansion section wasn't bad, but it was 4lbs heavier than a kifaru.
Aaron, over on the rokslide forum, routinely packs 100-125lbs on his kifaru every elk season, bear season, sheep season...etc. However, im not sure which version he is using. I thought Dan-O had the regular big version. He may have the bikini as I haven't looked at it in a while. they don't have any organization compartments tho, that's true. Its all one open area. My Eberlestock J34 with expansion section wasn't bad, but it was 4lbs heavier than a kifaru.
61.) p-pumped - 03/26/2014
Arron recomended not going with the bikini for heavy loads, back pack sheep hunts, etc. he recomended the standard
He is one of the developers of the pack.
He is one of the developers of the pack.
62.) Swamp Fox - 03/26/2014
I've been on that site two or three times but don't follow it. Is there a place where info on the newer designs for Kifaru bags in development can be found?
63.) p-pumped - 03/26/2014
I was told that from kifaru, also they debued some on facebook the other day
64.) Swamp Fox - 03/26/2014
Okay, thanks. I'll keep an eye on their website since Facebook is against my religion, LOL.
65.) p-pumped - 03/27/2014
Kuiu has some really well organised bags