1.) DParker - 10/02/2013

...to the question...

[INDENT]"Why do you carry a gun?"[/INDENT]

...is going to be...

[INDENT]"Because a Range Rover is too expensive."[/INDENT]

Now let's see who's been paying attention to the news. :p

2.) XJCraver - 10/02/2013

I'm thinking the same thing, DP. How much different do you think that fiasco would have been had Dad been lawfully carrying??


In all honesty though, the guy was a dumbass. He should have [I]never[/I] exited the highway, where the potential for getting/being stopped is so much higher. Had he just kept driving on the highway, and not stopped (while his wife was on her phone with 911), he'd still have a window in his RR, and no black eyes.

Had that been ME, and MY wife and kids were in the vehicle?? A whole bunch more people/bikes would have been run over. I'd have went all Grand Theft Auto on those @#$%^&^%$#@$%^&.

3.) DParker - 10/02/2013

[QUOTE=XJCraver;11334]I'm thinking the same thing, DP. How much different do you think that fiasco would have been had Dad been lawfully carrying??[/QUOTE]

With that many aggressive d'bags surrounding me...some of whom may have been packing as well...I would have done exactly the same thing. Namely, plowing over whomever was in my way in an effort to get the hell out of that situation rather than risking a firefight that could get my family killed (not to mention myself). Not until I had run out of escape options (as he ultimately did) would I then resort to firepower as a means of defense. Then it would be *BANG*BANG*BANG* until slide-lock...reload and repeat as necessary.

[QUOTE=XJCraver;11334]In all honesty though, the guy was a dumbass. He should have [I]never[/I] exited the highway, where the potential for getting/being stopped is so much higher. Had he just kept driving on the highway, and not stopped (while his wife was on her phone with 911), he'd still have a window in his RR, and no black eyes.

Had that been ME, and MY wife and kids were in the vehicle?? A whole bunch more people/bikes would have been run over. I'd have went all Grand Theft Auto on those @#$%^&^%$#@$%^&.[/QUOTE]

In his defense, he did drive until he no longer had any tire on the right-front rim (which has been slashed in the initial altercation). Staying on the highway at speed for much longer might not have been much of an option for him, and he might have been hoping to find a cop. Granted, I likely wouldn't have done that if I could avoid it...but the guy's just an average city dweller/businessman. Not everyone puts much thought into dynamic self-defense tactics.

4.) Deerminator - 10/03/2013

I would have mowed them all down with the Trail Blazer and then opened up on what was left of them.

They asked for it in just the right way.

5.) Hunter - 10/03/2013

I don't think I would have pulled off either but I'm sure it is tough to think rationally when in that stressful of a situation.

6.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

I would have thrown my helmet through his window and pummeled the shit out of him too if he would have run over my buddy or family member and tried to run.

7.) DParker - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=Dan-o;11353]I would have thrown my helmet through his window and pummeled the shit out of him too if he would have run over my buddy or family member and tried to run.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to be generous here and assume that you're commenting without having actually viewed the copious amounts of video of the event.

8.) DParker - 10/03/2013

Not to mention all of the other information about not just what this bunch of assholes pulled in this incident, but their repeated history of similarly thuggish crap, both individually and as a group.

9.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=DParker;11354]I'm going to be generous here and assume that you're commenting without having actually viewed the copious amounts of video of the event.[/QUOTE]

I've seen the video and read the reports being generated by those on both sides of the incident, and drawn my initial conclusion based on that, as well as the biases developed over the course of my experiences.

10.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=DParker;11356]Not to mention all of the other information about not just what this bunch of assholes pulled in this incident, but their repeated history of similarly thuggish crap, both individually and as a group.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but unfortunately the asshole in the car's history isn't entirely available yet.

11.) DParker - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=Dan-o;11357]I've seen the video and read the reports being generated by those on both sides of the incident, and drawn my initial conclusion based on that, [B]as well as the biases developed over the course of my experiences[/B].[/QUOTE]

I think we've found the problem. Those biases (past experiences that have nothing at all to do with the incident in question) have lead you to review these facts...

1) A man and his family (wife and 2 year-old daughter) are driving on the highway in a Range Rover.
2) A gange of 40-50 thugs, many of whom are on the road illegally to begin with, and have a history of terrorizing the local highways and pulling all sorts of unsafe crap, including shutting down multiple lanes at a time, come up on the Range Rover from behind and proceed to surround it.
3) One of said thugs decides it's a good idea to cut the Range Rover off and quickly decelerate in an obvious effort to either stop the RR or cause it to impact him.
4) The laws of physics manifest themselves as the multi-ton RR is unable to decelerate in time to avoid impacting the idiot on bike who cut him off, and he has no option of even swerving to avoid the impact because the other idiots have him surrounded on all sides.
5) RR driver does the right thing and stops. Immediately the entire gang of idiots stops, blocking the highway, and swarms the RR and begin pounding on it, with at least one idiot slashing the right front tire of the RR.
6) Family man, in reasonable fear for his safety and that of his family takes the only viable option available to him and attempts to escape. Being completely surrounded by beligerant idiots the only means of effecting said escape is to plow through/over some of them. Again, this is a situation created entirely by the gang of bike-riding idiots.

...and come to the conclusion that the driver is the one who needed a beating?

12.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=DParker;11359]I think we've found the problem. Those biases (past experiences that have nothing at all to do with the incident in question) have lead you to review these facts...

1) A man and his family (wife and 2 year-old daughter) are driving on the highway in a Range Rover.
2) A gange of 40-50 thugs, many of whom are on the road illegally to begin with, and have a history of terrorizing the local highways and pulling all sorts of unsafe crap, including shutting down multiple lanes at a time, come up on the Range Rover from behind and proceed to surround it.
3) One of said thugs decides it's a good idea to cut the Range Rover off and quickly decelerate in an obvious effort either stop the RR or cause it to impact him.
4) The laws of physics manifest themselves as the multi-ton RR is unable to decelerate in time to avoid impacting the idiot on bike who cut him off, and he has no option of even swerving to avoid the impact because the other idiots have him surrounded on all sides.
5) RR driver does the right thing and stops. Immediately the entire gang of idiots stops, blocking the highway, and swarms the RR and begin pounding on it, with at least one idiot slashing the right front tire of the RR.
6) Family man, in reasonable fear for his safety and that of his family takes the only viable option available to him and attempts to escape. Being completely surrounded by beligerant idiots the only means of effecting said escape is to plow through/over some of them. Again, this is a situation created entirely by the gang of bike-riding idiots.

...and come to the conclusion that the driver is the one who needed a beating?[/QUOTE]

Those are not the facts as I see them, and frankly, I don't care enough to type out the version of facts that I currently believe to be true about the initial cause of the incident to begin with. Those are the facts as I first heard them. Surely it's not possible the initial reports by the media were wrong, flawed, or incomplete? They don't do that in gun/shooting cases or cases like the trayvon/Zimmerman incident either.

I believe people see the incident from the side they romantically envision themselves in. You see yourself as the family man trying to protect their family from a gang of thugs on bikes, and maybe I see myself as a guy on a bike trying to bring justice to a guy in a cage that unintentionally clipped one of his buddies and then hauled ass.

Either way, it's not that much of a concern to me. If I'm on the jury, I'll remove all bias and irrelevant history from my consideration. If I'm a jerk following a news story, I'll let my biases and history come into play.

13.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

I mean, they were power rangers on crotch rockets named "Hollywood stunts". How could they possibly be wrong?

14.) DParker - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=Dan-o;11363]Those are not the facts as I see them[/quote]

I just had a flashback to the OJ jury.

15.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=DParker;11366]I just had a flashback to the OJ jury.[/QUOTE]

Could be worse. Could be the Casey Anthony jury.

16.) DParker - 10/03/2013

BTW...I rode bikes from the time I was 10 years old (dirt) until I was 26 (a Yamaha 750 Virago that I dearly loved). Many of my friends and co-workers still do. I co-exist very well with those on the roads today, so long as they're not behaving like belligerant douchebags. And I don't romantically envision squat. I just don't ignore mountains of clear indisputable evidence and declare someone an asshole who needed a beating - in complete contradiction to all of the evidence - simply because it doesn't jive with my bias and preconceived notions.

17.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=DParker;11369]BTW...I rode bikes from the time I was 10 years old (dirt) until I was 26 (a Yamaha 750 Virago that I dearly loved). Many of my friends and co-workers still do. I co-exist very well with those on the roads today, so long as they're not behaving like belligerant douchebags. And I don't romantically envision squat. I just don't ignore mountains of clear indisputable evidence and declare someone an asshole who needed a beating - in complete contradiction to all of the evidence - simply because it doesn't jive with my bias and preconceived notions.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. Get ready to be shocked if you haven't read the latest on the incident. My unexplainable and irrational view is shared by others.

18.) DParker - 10/03/2013

[QUOTE=Dan-o;11371]I hear ya. Get ready to be shocked if you haven't read the latest on the incident. My unexplainable and irrational view is shared by others.[/QUOTE]

So is a belief that the world's governments are secretly controlled by lizard people from outer space. The fact that multiple people share a belief is evidence of nothing other than that they share a belief.

19.) DParker - 10/03/2013

Here's another helmet video taken of these morons' behavior and posted (and since taken down...but not before being captured and preserved by others) by the same clown who recorded the RR incident (at least, he posted it to his same YouTube account and claimed credit for it). Notice them driving on the wrong side of the center stripe and repeatedly blowing through multiple red lights, then surrounding and pounding on the windows of a car that had the [I]audacity[/I] to enter the intersection that they were running a red light through when he had the green light!

[video=youtube;aReFR6GaqKw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aReFR6GaqKw[/video]

A bunch of upstanding choir boys there.

20.) DParker - 10/03/2013

Here's another one taken from a building window shortly before they hit the highway and created the RR incident. Apparently these well-behaved gentlemen had a momentary lapse of memory and thought they were in jolly olde England, hence their taking over of the left side of the street...

[video=youtube;XLIFpSpVP1w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLIFpSpVP1w[/video]

21.) Dan-o - 10/03/2013

If I cared about their antics, I'd watch. I'm sure it's some nice evidence supporting your view.

22.) bluecat - 10/03/2013

I've looked at the videos, I've weighed the evidence. These hooligans remind me of a band of hoodlums from England.

23.) DParker - 10/03/2013

Sure, skeins of knitting yarn. That's how it starts out. Then, before you know it, you're knocking off liquor stores to buy needlepoint supplies.

24.) bluecat - 10/03/2013

They always leave their signature doilies behind too. It's almost like they are marking their territory.

25.) bluecat - 10/11/2013

James Kuehne turns himself in, becoming 7th biker arrested in Manhattan gang assault of Alexian Lien



I keep replaying this in my mind and wonder how I would have reacted. Especially if I would have had a gun in the car with me. I would have probably shot anyone trying to gain entrance to my vehicle, but I'm sure I would have been shot as well.


[url]http://brooklyn.news12.com/news/james-kuehne-turns-himself-in-becoming-7th-biker-arrested-in-manhattan-gang-assault-of-alexian-lien-1.6231826[/url]