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1.) DParker - 09/23/2013
After a trip to the range this morning to shoot off a couple 20-rd boxes of Prvi Partizan 7.62x54R partly for fun, but mainly to scrounge the once-fired brass, I returned home and sat down to prep the brass for a precision reloading project. For those who might have considered getting into reloading but haven't taken plunge yet I thought I'd take snap some photos of the process so as to give an idea of what all is involved. Brass prep involves a lot of repetitive motion that causes the muscles in my chest and sides to tense up and begin hurting after a while, so I always stop once the prep work is done and then to the actual loading on another day. Because of that I'll be doing this in two installments with Part II probably next weekend.
Bear in mind that there are a lot of different methods of doing brass preparation (as well as all of the other steps of reloading as well). Exactly what one does depends on the purpose of the load, the condition of the brass, personal preference, etc. In this case I'm going to be using once-fired cases to work up as precise a load as I think I can for my Mosin-Nagant using some Hornady 174 gr .312" Match BTHP (Boat Tailed Hollow Points) bullets that I found and expect will give better results than the 150 gr SPs (Soft Points) I used for my hunting load. So, here's a brief run-down of what was done.
I didn't think to start photographing the process until after the dirty brass had already taken a crushed walnut shell bath in the Lyman Turbo 2200 vibratory tumbler...
...but trust me, they were a sooty mess. But after 2 hours of the walnut shell treatment they came out shiny as new:
The first step after that is to decap and full-length resize (remove the spent primers and reform the case to nominal dimensions). This is done with a combination decapper/resizer die mounted, in this case, in my Hornady Lock-n-Load progressive press. Although a progressive, since I'm only performing a single operation (or more accurately, using only one die) I am in effect using the press as though it were a single stage model, with the exception that the cases do not need to be manually removed from the shell plate after resizing as they are automatically ejected into the plastic bin mounted on the left side of the press as the shell plate rotates them directly above it. (Also, the cases must be lubricated via any one of several popular methods. I used a spray lube, though I forgot to take a pic of that as well...but you're really not missing anything).
This is what it looks like when the press handle is pulled down and the ram raises the case all the way into the die (or die[B][I]s[/I][/B] if you're performing multiple steps simultaneously):
This is what the primer pockets look like after the primer has been popped out. Lots of sooty nastiness:
But we'll deal with that problem soon enough.
The next set of steps, which only needs to be done once with any new or once-fired brass, involves chamfering and beburring to remove any rough/jagged bits of metal from the case mouth, uniforming the primer pocket, reaming the primer flash hole and then cleaning any remaining soot from the primer pocket. This can be readily accomplished with simple hand tools made for each step, and with small batches (I was prepping only 40 cases) it not too terribly tedious. But since I already have a motorized case prep tool I got for making larger batches easier, we'll go ahead and use that here as well. I give you the RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center:
Each of the 5 tool heads you see are rotated by an electric motor and all you need do is press the appropriate part of the case up against the tool head needed for the prep operation you're performing. The heads can also be removed and replaced with other rotary tools (for instance, the military crimp remover I have for military surplus brass). I used all 5 (cont'd in next post):
Bear in mind that there are a lot of different methods of doing brass preparation (as well as all of the other steps of reloading as well). Exactly what one does depends on the purpose of the load, the condition of the brass, personal preference, etc. In this case I'm going to be using once-fired cases to work up as precise a load as I think I can for my Mosin-Nagant using some Hornady 174 gr .312" Match BTHP (Boat Tailed Hollow Points) bullets that I found and expect will give better results than the 150 gr SPs (Soft Points) I used for my hunting load. So, here's a brief run-down of what was done.
I didn't think to start photographing the process until after the dirty brass had already taken a crushed walnut shell bath in the Lyman Turbo 2200 vibratory tumbler...
...but trust me, they were a sooty mess. But after 2 hours of the walnut shell treatment they came out shiny as new:
The first step after that is to decap and full-length resize (remove the spent primers and reform the case to nominal dimensions). This is done with a combination decapper/resizer die mounted, in this case, in my Hornady Lock-n-Load progressive press. Although a progressive, since I'm only performing a single operation (or more accurately, using only one die) I am in effect using the press as though it were a single stage model, with the exception that the cases do not need to be manually removed from the shell plate after resizing as they are automatically ejected into the plastic bin mounted on the left side of the press as the shell plate rotates them directly above it. (Also, the cases must be lubricated via any one of several popular methods. I used a spray lube, though I forgot to take a pic of that as well...but you're really not missing anything).
This is what it looks like when the press handle is pulled down and the ram raises the case all the way into the die (or die[B][I]s[/I][/B] if you're performing multiple steps simultaneously):
This is what the primer pockets look like after the primer has been popped out. Lots of sooty nastiness:
But we'll deal with that problem soon enough.
The next set of steps, which only needs to be done once with any new or once-fired brass, involves chamfering and beburring to remove any rough/jagged bits of metal from the case mouth, uniforming the primer pocket, reaming the primer flash hole and then cleaning any remaining soot from the primer pocket. This can be readily accomplished with simple hand tools made for each step, and with small batches (I was prepping only 40 cases) it not too terribly tedious. But since I already have a motorized case prep tool I got for making larger batches easier, we'll go ahead and use that here as well. I give you the RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center:
Each of the 5 tool heads you see are rotated by an electric motor and all you need do is press the appropriate part of the case up against the tool head needed for the prep operation you're performing. The heads can also be removed and replaced with other rotary tools (for instance, the military crimp remover I have for military surplus brass). I used all 5 (cont'd in next post):
2.) DParker - 09/23/2013
(cont'd from previous post)
Chamfering...
Deburring...
Primer pocket uniforming...
Flash hole reaming...
And brushing any remaining gunk from the primer pocket...
...which leaves each case with burr-less case mouths and a nicely uniform and clean primer pocket:
And now we have 40 shiny pieces of brass that are all prepped and ready to be primed, loaded with powder and have a bullet seated into their necks...plus a couple of other extra procedures that I perform only for precision loads. Next week...I hope.
Chamfering...
Deburring...
Primer pocket uniforming...
Flash hole reaming...
And brushing any remaining gunk from the primer pocket...
...which leaves each case with burr-less case mouths and a nicely uniform and clean primer pocket:
And now we have 40 shiny pieces of brass that are all prepped and ready to be primed, loaded with powder and have a bullet seated into their necks...plus a couple of other extra procedures that I perform only for precision loads. Next week...I hope.
3.) Forkie McRut - 09/23/2013
Are you using the Hornady spray lube?
I'm using the RCBS sizing lube and a pad. It gets messy at times. I end up throwing them back into some corn cob media after the deprime/resizing to get all the lube off. Only takes about 30mins but thinking the spray may be the way to go.
I'm using the RCBS sizing lube and a pad. It gets messy at times. I end up throwing them back into some corn cob media after the deprime/resizing to get all the lube off. Only takes about 30mins but thinking the spray may be the way to go.
4.) DParker - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=Forkie McRut;10916]Are you using the Hornady spray lube?
I'm using the RCBS sizing lube and a pad. It gets messy at times. I end up throwing them back into some corn cob media after the deprime/resizing to get all the lube off. Only takes about 30mins but thinking the spray may be the way to go.[/QUOTE]
It depends. In this case I did use One Shot (Hornady's spray-on lube). But I also have a couple of RCBS universal decapping/lube dies that I use when doing large-volume batches of 9mm and .223 plinking/practice loads. I know some people claim that they've experienced issue with One Shot, but I've never had any problems so long as I follow the directions.
I'm using the RCBS sizing lube and a pad. It gets messy at times. I end up throwing them back into some corn cob media after the deprime/resizing to get all the lube off. Only takes about 30mins but thinking the spray may be the way to go.[/QUOTE]
It depends. In this case I did use One Shot (Hornady's spray-on lube). But I also have a couple of RCBS universal decapping/lube dies that I use when doing large-volume batches of 9mm and .223 plinking/practice loads. I know some people claim that they've experienced issue with One Shot, but I've never had any problems so long as I follow the directions.
5.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;10914] Brass prep involves a lot of repetitive motion that causes the muscles in my chest and sides to tense up and begin hurting after a while, so I always stop once the prep work is done and then to the actual loading on another day. Because of that I'll be doing this in two installments with Part II probably next weekend.
[/QUOTE]
That's what SHE said...
:groan:
[/QUOTE]
That's what SHE said...
:groan:
6.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
Well how cool is that! Thanks DP.
7.) DParker - 09/23/2013
Forkie...I should have added that with One Shot you still need to get excess lube off the cases. It's just not quite as bad with the RCBS and other types. With larger batches (around 100 or more cases) I do the same thing as you...toss them into some corn cob media in the tumbler. But with small ones like this just wiping them down with a rag individually is easy enough.
8.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2013
:-)
On a less serious note, I've often thought about reloading but never felt I had the time for it. If I were more of a plinker or a bigger handgun shooter, I'd have to reconsider, especially with ammo prices and availability being what they are today. As it is, I sit on the fence.
I'd like somebody to throw some numbers for cost and time up, based on setting up for reloading a low/moderate amount of ammo with good, efficient equipment vs. the cost of buying $30 boxes of ammo off the shelf. When I say a low/moderate amount of ammo, I mean reloading enough and cheaply enough to increase your ability to shoot 200 rounds per year, say, to something in the neighborhood of 1000.
For a reply, I wait "with bated breath, and whispring humblenesse..."
:wink
:pop:
On a less serious note, I've often thought about reloading but never felt I had the time for it. If I were more of a plinker or a bigger handgun shooter, I'd have to reconsider, especially with ammo prices and availability being what they are today. As it is, I sit on the fence.
I'd like somebody to throw some numbers for cost and time up, based on setting up for reloading a low/moderate amount of ammo with good, efficient equipment vs. the cost of buying $30 boxes of ammo off the shelf. When I say a low/moderate amount of ammo, I mean reloading enough and cheaply enough to increase your ability to shoot 200 rounds per year, say, to something in the neighborhood of 1000.
For a reply, I wait "with bated breath, and whispring humblenesse..."
:wink
:pop:
9.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
I wondered about that.
And by decap you mean removing the primer right?
I'm not sure about the resizing. The spent cartridge would be a little larger than an unfired cartridge I'm guessing, so how does resizing it shrink/reform it to proper dimensions. Yeah, I'm dumb.
And by decap you mean removing the primer right?
I'm not sure about the resizing. The spent cartridge would be a little larger than an unfired cartridge I'm guessing, so how does resizing it shrink/reform it to proper dimensions. Yeah, I'm dumb.
10.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;10930]:-)
On a less serious note, I've often thought about reloading but never felt I had the time for it. If I were more of a plinker or a bigger handgun shooter, I'd have to reconsider, especially with ammo prices and availability being what they are today. As it is, I sit on the fence.
I'd like somebody to throw some numbers for cost and time up, based on setting up for reloading a low/moderate amount of ammo with good, efficient equipment vs. the cost of buying $30 boxes of ammo off the shelf. When I say a low/moderate amount of ammo, I mean reloading enough and cheaply enough to increase your ability to shoot 200 rounds per year, say, to something in the neighborhood of 1000.
For a reply, I wait "with bated breath, and whispring humblenesse..."
:wink
:pop:[/QUOTE]
You may have some reloading supplies under the seat of your Bronco that you didn't know about.
On a less serious note, I've often thought about reloading but never felt I had the time for it. If I were more of a plinker or a bigger handgun shooter, I'd have to reconsider, especially with ammo prices and availability being what they are today. As it is, I sit on the fence.
I'd like somebody to throw some numbers for cost and time up, based on setting up for reloading a low/moderate amount of ammo with good, efficient equipment vs. the cost of buying $30 boxes of ammo off the shelf. When I say a low/moderate amount of ammo, I mean reloading enough and cheaply enough to increase your ability to shoot 200 rounds per year, say, to something in the neighborhood of 1000.
For a reply, I wait "with bated breath, and whispring humblenesse..."
:wink
:pop:[/QUOTE]
You may have some reloading supplies under the seat of your Bronco that you didn't know about.
11.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2013
Well, I know every time I brake hard, spent brass keeps rolling out from under...
:-)
:-)
12.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
If you ever get stopped and the officer asks you if you have anything that can poke or stick him in your Bronco, are you just going to laugh and exit the vehicle. "Good luck officer, let me know what you find."
13.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2013
LOL... :laugh:
Last time I got stopped---Society Hill, SC...Population 700...Their speedtrap pays for a six-bay firehouse, a new Charger prowl car and who knows what else...probably more than one bullet, not that they need it...Go the long way around if you can--- I got a good kick out of watching Deputy Dawg approach the vehicle in my side mirror. I'm still trying to figure out if it was the fact that the Bronco was packed to the gills that freaked him out, or that he could see one of my old cardboard bulls-eye targets riddled with holes wedged up against the side glass...:wink
But I digress...
Last time I got stopped---Society Hill, SC...Population 700...Their speedtrap pays for a six-bay firehouse, a new Charger prowl car and who knows what else...probably more than one bullet, not that they need it...Go the long way around if you can--- I got a good kick out of watching Deputy Dawg approach the vehicle in my side mirror. I'm still trying to figure out if it was the fact that the Bronco was packed to the gills that freaked him out, or that he could see one of my old cardboard bulls-eye targets riddled with holes wedged up against the side glass...:wink
But I digress...
14.) Bob Peck - 09/23/2013
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I've been on the fence about reloading for the past decade.
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything
15.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
Delta Paul is like that. He can make the simplest recipe seem out of reach for the "common guy". I ask him one time how to make jello. It was 15 pages of water temperatures, flavor profiles, evaporation rates, water chemistry etc.
16.) DParker - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=bluecat;10931]I wondered about that.
And by decap you mean removing the primer right?[/QUOTE]
Correct.
[QUOTE=bluecat;10931]I'm not sure about the resizing. The spent cartridge would be a little larger than an unfired cartridge I'm guessing, so how does resizing it shrink/reform it to proper dimensions. Yeah, I'm dumb.[/QUOTE]
Excellent question...and the fact is that in this particular situation FL (full length) resizing really isn't necessary (nor even desirable). This is because when fired in a bolt action gun the case expands to fit the chamber, and then shrinks back just a tiny bit (brass is somewhat elastic), which works out well because this allows for easy extraction and rechambering when it's reused. (The situation is a bit different when it comes to semi-auto guns, and FL resizing is needed every so often to ensure proper chambering. But I won't get into the details of that here.) This is known as "fire forming", and is a good thing for brass that will only be reloaded for the same rifle it was fire formed in, since it is now more-or-less custom sized just for that chamber. And since resizing in a FL die "works" and stresses the brass more than would a neck-sizer die repeated FL resizing will shorten the useful life of the brass. That's why I recently acquired a neck sizer die for 7.62x54R (see my previous thread on RCBS customer service and the fact that I broke the decapper pin on the die). But until I get the replacement decapper pins that RCBS sent me for that die I'm stuck with decapping (and therefor resizing) using the FL die. Doing it this one time won't make a huge difference in how many reloads I can get out of the cases, so it's not that big of a deal.
And by decap you mean removing the primer right?[/QUOTE]
Correct.
[QUOTE=bluecat;10931]I'm not sure about the resizing. The spent cartridge would be a little larger than an unfired cartridge I'm guessing, so how does resizing it shrink/reform it to proper dimensions. Yeah, I'm dumb.[/QUOTE]
Excellent question...and the fact is that in this particular situation FL (full length) resizing really isn't necessary (nor even desirable). This is because when fired in a bolt action gun the case expands to fit the chamber, and then shrinks back just a tiny bit (brass is somewhat elastic), which works out well because this allows for easy extraction and rechambering when it's reused. (The situation is a bit different when it comes to semi-auto guns, and FL resizing is needed every so often to ensure proper chambering. But I won't get into the details of that here.) This is known as "fire forming", and is a good thing for brass that will only be reloaded for the same rifle it was fire formed in, since it is now more-or-less custom sized just for that chamber. And since resizing in a FL die "works" and stresses the brass more than would a neck-sizer die repeated FL resizing will shorten the useful life of the brass. That's why I recently acquired a neck sizer die for 7.62x54R (see my previous thread on RCBS customer service and the fact that I broke the decapper pin on the die). But until I get the replacement decapper pins that RCBS sent me for that die I'm stuck with decapping (and therefor resizing) using the FL die. Doing it this one time won't make a huge difference in how many reloads I can get out of the cases, so it's not that big of a deal.
17.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;10939]Correct.
Excellent question...and the fact is that in this particular situation FL (full length) resizing really isn't necessary (nor even desirable). This is because when fired in a bolt action gun the case expands to fit the chamber, and then shrinks back just a tiny bit (brass is somewhat elastic), which works out well because this allows for easy extraction and rechambering when it's reused. (The situation is a bit different when it comes to semi-auto guns, and FL resizing is needed every so often to ensure proper chambering. But I won't get into the details of that here.) This is known as "fire forming", and is a good thing for brass that will only be reloaded for the same rifle it was fire formed in, since it is now more-or-less custom sized just for that chamber. And since resizing in a FL die "works" and stresses the brass more than would a neck-sizer die repeated FL resizing will shorten the useful life of the brass. That's why I recently acquired a neck sizer die for 7.62x54R (see my previous thread on RCBS customer service and the fact that I broke the decapper pin on the die). But until I get the replacement decapper pins that RCBS sent me for that die I'm stuck with decapping (and therefor resizing) using the FL die. Doing it this one time won't make a huge difference in how many reloads I can get out of the cases, so it's not that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, so how do you know when your brass shouldn't be reloaded anymore, i.e. is worn out?
Excellent question...and the fact is that in this particular situation FL (full length) resizing really isn't necessary (nor even desirable). This is because when fired in a bolt action gun the case expands to fit the chamber, and then shrinks back just a tiny bit (brass is somewhat elastic), which works out well because this allows for easy extraction and rechambering when it's reused. (The situation is a bit different when it comes to semi-auto guns, and FL resizing is needed every so often to ensure proper chambering. But I won't get into the details of that here.) This is known as "fire forming", and is a good thing for brass that will only be reloaded for the same rifle it was fire formed in, since it is now more-or-less custom sized just for that chamber. And since resizing in a FL die "works" and stresses the brass more than would a neck-sizer die repeated FL resizing will shorten the useful life of the brass. That's why I recently acquired a neck sizer die for 7.62x54R (see my previous thread on RCBS customer service and the fact that I broke the decapper pin on the die). But until I get the replacement decapper pins that RCBS sent me for that die I'm stuck with decapping (and therefor resizing) using the FL die. Doing it this one time won't make a huge difference in how many reloads I can get out of the cases, so it's not that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, so how do you know when your brass shouldn't be reloaded anymore, i.e. is worn out?
18.) DParker - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=bluecat;10938]Delta Paul is like that. He can make the simplest recipe seem out of reach for the "common guy". I ask him one time how to make jello. It was 15 pages of water temperatures, flavor profiles, evaporation rates, water chemistry etc.[/QUOTE]
That's what you get for not asking Bill Cosby instead.
That's what you get for not asking Bill Cosby instead.
19.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;10936]I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I've been on the fence about reloading for the past decade.
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything[/QUOTE]
You forgot to realphabetize your "excuse for missing list".
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything[/QUOTE]
You forgot to realphabetize your "excuse for missing list".
20.) DParker - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=bluecat;10940]Thanks, so how do you know when your brass shouldn't be reloaded anymore, i.e. is worn out?[/QUOTE]
You look for signs of stress in the metal. Some are blindingly obvious, like splits occurring in the neck, while some require a little more examination to see, like the beginning of cracks in the case wall or...even more subtle...the potential beginnings of case head separation, like this:
Even brass that has only been fired once should be closely examined for signs of stress that may indicate a flaw in the case construction and, if such signs appear, the case should be tossed into the trash.
You look for signs of stress in the metal. Some are blindingly obvious, like splits occurring in the neck, while some require a little more examination to see, like the beginning of cracks in the case wall or...even more subtle...the potential beginnings of case head separation, like this:
Even brass that has only been fired once should be closely examined for signs of stress that may indicate a flaw in the case construction and, if such signs appear, the case should be tossed into the trash.
21.) DParker - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;10936]I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I've been on the fence about reloading for the past decade.
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything[/QUOTE]
Meh. It's like any other hobby. Save for the minimum time and effort required to pay attention and adhere to basic safety practices, reloading is only as complicated and/or time-consuming as you choose to make it. And depending on what you're doing, investing in labor/time-saving tools like the motorized case prep center can make a huge difference. Then again, you can also use basic hand tools and multi-task those steps by doing them while relaxing in front of the TV watching a movie or whatever in the evening (assuming you ever do such a thing).
I'm doing several different types of loads intended for different purposes. Some loads are produced in high-volume with only minimal concern for accuracy because they're going to be used for hangun practice, or because they're just for plinking fun at the range...and the primary goal is to save money on each round vs. the cost of using factory ammo. The overall expenditure of time per round for these loads is quite low, really. And I work on them only when I have a spare hour or two here and there. I can do some prep work on several hundred rounds one evening, then load them up on another day/night, without sitting at the bench for a prolonged period at any one time.
Other rounds are produced in smaller batches for hunting purposes, where the vast majority of them will be expended in initially testing and working up the best load recipe...and then *maybe* one or two shots in the field each season, if I'm lucky. Others, like my current project, are intended just for the fun of seeing what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of a gun. These require considerably more time and effort per round, but the number of rounds produced is so small that it still doesn't represent a major expenditure of time.
But, hey...if you're still not interested it just means more primers and powder are available for me. :-)
With the recent cycle of ammo being scarce my interest in reloading ratcheted up even further. I was ready to get serious, learn the do's & dont's, buy all the gear, spend endless nights in the garage and for the first time ever actually began saving all my brass from the .44 mag, .308 and .30-06
Now? After reading this informative and detailed post? Never! No way! No how!
[U]I have time to[/U]:
-scout
-place trail cams & plot watchers
-shore up existing stands
-cut shooting lanes
-plant killing plots
-cut brush that was 7 years in the making and now obscuring sight lines
-study the same Google Earth images I've studied for years
-sharpen knives
-tune/re-tune bows
-fletch arrows
-de-scent my entire camo wardrobe covering 3 seasons
-inspect, repair, replace hardware on climber stands
-practice 3 times per week
-sight in new firearms & optics
-plan my annual 2-backpack hunting excursions in the Blue Ridge
-drink beer and visualize deer hanging from my meat hook in the garage
-pre-pack the day pack, the overnight pack and the short hunt pack
-clean off, clear and organize my workbench for the 10th time this year
[U]I now know I don't have time to[/U]:
-reload anything[/QUOTE]
Meh. It's like any other hobby. Save for the minimum time and effort required to pay attention and adhere to basic safety practices, reloading is only as complicated and/or time-consuming as you choose to make it. And depending on what you're doing, investing in labor/time-saving tools like the motorized case prep center can make a huge difference. Then again, you can also use basic hand tools and multi-task those steps by doing them while relaxing in front of the TV watching a movie or whatever in the evening (assuming you ever do such a thing).
I'm doing several different types of loads intended for different purposes. Some loads are produced in high-volume with only minimal concern for accuracy because they're going to be used for hangun practice, or because they're just for plinking fun at the range...and the primary goal is to save money on each round vs. the cost of using factory ammo. The overall expenditure of time per round for these loads is quite low, really. And I work on them only when I have a spare hour or two here and there. I can do some prep work on several hundred rounds one evening, then load them up on another day/night, without sitting at the bench for a prolonged period at any one time.
Other rounds are produced in smaller batches for hunting purposes, where the vast majority of them will be expended in initially testing and working up the best load recipe...and then *maybe* one or two shots in the field each season, if I'm lucky. Others, like my current project, are intended just for the fun of seeing what kind of accuracy I can squeeze out of a gun. These require considerably more time and effort per round, but the number of rounds produced is so small that it still doesn't represent a major expenditure of time.
But, hey...if you're still not interested it just means more primers and powder are available for me. :-)
22.) Swamp Fox - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;10930]:-)
... As it is, I sit on the fence...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;10936]I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I've been on the fence about reloading for the past decade...
[/QUOTE]
With Bob and I both sitting on the fence, I'm a little worried about how much beer he's been drinking lately...
... As it is, I sit on the fence...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;10936]I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I've been on the fence about reloading for the past decade...
[/QUOTE]
With Bob and I both sitting on the fence, I'm a little worried about how much beer he's been drinking lately...
23.) bluecat - 09/23/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;10946]You look for signs of stress in the metal. Some are blindingly obvious, like splits occurring in the neck, while some require a little more examination to see, like the beginning of cracks in the case wall or...even more subtle...the potential beginnings of case head separation, like this:
Even brass that has only been fired once should be closely examined for signs of stress that may indicate a flaw in the case construction and, if such signs appear, the case should be tossed into the trash.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, at first I wasn't see the damage.
Even brass that has only been fired once should be closely examined for signs of stress that may indicate a flaw in the case construction and, if such signs appear, the case should be tossed into the trash.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, at first I wasn't see the damage.
24.) Bob Peck - 09/24/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;10948]Meh. It's like any other hobby. [/QUOTE] Any hobby with as many informed and critical micro-steps which you apparently take for granted, doesn't seem like it's in the same league as model airplane building or stamp collecting. I *do* understand a reloader being OCD. I am this way when it comes to bow set up and tuning. Clearly for you it's the challenge of experimentation and the perfect round to match the application and firearm.
[QUOTE=DParker;10948] ...and the primary goal is to save money on each round vs. the cost of using factory ammo.[/QUOTE] Since I'm independently wealthy and never have to work another day in my life (bald-faced lie) in terms of total time investment vs quality ratio for the time being my money is tied up in a 15 min retail encounter.
[QUOTE=DParker;10948]But, hey...if you're still not interested it just means more primers and powder are available for me. :-)[/QUOTE] It's not that I'm not interested. I am. Time is hard to come by, needs to be used wisely and right now as I focus my zen center on the many trophy kills that await me in the dark hollers of the Blue Ridge, I am plum short of time to invest in reloading. Once The Walking Dead starts up in October I will once again become fearful I don't have enough ammo in my stockpile and will inevitably revisit reloading. BTW, excellent and informative content!
[QUOTE=DParker;10948] ...and the primary goal is to save money on each round vs. the cost of using factory ammo.[/QUOTE] Since I'm independently wealthy and never have to work another day in my life (bald-faced lie) in terms of total time investment vs quality ratio for the time being my money is tied up in a 15 min retail encounter.
[QUOTE=DParker;10948]But, hey...if you're still not interested it just means more primers and powder are available for me. :-)[/QUOTE] It's not that I'm not interested. I am. Time is hard to come by, needs to be used wisely and right now as I focus my zen center on the many trophy kills that await me in the dark hollers of the Blue Ridge, I am plum short of time to invest in reloading. Once The Walking Dead starts up in October I will once again become fearful I don't have enough ammo in my stockpile and will inevitably revisit reloading. BTW, excellent and informative content!
25.) DParker - 09/24/2013
[QUOTE=Bob Peck;10999]It's not that I'm not interested. I am. Time is hard to come by, needs to be used wisely and right now as I focus my zen center on the many trophy kills that await me in the dark hollers of the Blue Ridge, I am plum short of time to invest in reloading. Once The Walking Dead starts up in October I will once again become fearful I don't have enough ammo in my stockpile and will inevitably revisit reloading. BTW, excellent and informative content![/QUOTE]
Thanks. And by "not interested" I just meant that, having done the "Einstein discovers that time is actually money" math you had determined that your expected value from the activity did not meet/exceed the time expense involved.
But I'm still going to call Grafs and Midway and tell them that you said I could have dibs on all of the components that you otherwise would have bought. :tu:
Thanks. And by "not interested" I just meant that, having done the "Einstein discovers that time is actually money" math you had determined that your expected value from the activity did not meet/exceed the time expense involved.
But I'm still going to call Grafs and Midway and tell them that you said I could have dibs on all of the components that you otherwise would have bought. :tu:
26.) Swamp Fox - 09/25/2013
I'm still waiting for my cost-benefit analysis...:tap:
Between Bob Peck and DParker, I thought we were gonna get all technical up in here...
I was kinda looking forward to it...:wink
Between Bob Peck and DParker, I thought we were gonna get all technical up in here...
I was kinda looking forward to it...:wink
27.) DParker - 09/25/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;11015]I'm still waiting for my cost-benefit analysis...:tap:
Between Bob Peck and DParker, I thought we were gonna get all technical up in here...
I was kinda looking forward to it...:wink[/QUOTE]
"You know, sometimes you're high-maintenance...like a broad."
~ Jimmy Smits' character "Detective Bobby Simone" to his partner, Detective Andy Sipowicz, in [I]NYPD Blue[/I]
:wink
OK, OK...I've done this before in a previous somethingorothercountry life, but let's see if I can reproduce it. I'm going to keep it as simple as possible by pricing for only a single cartridge type (but assuming the desire to load multiple different cartridges at some point) and a good single-stage press with minimal recommended (by me) equipment and tools, because there's no real limit on cost once you start adding on goodies for the sake of extra accuracy, convenience, etc.
Of the major popular press manufacturers you really can't go wrong, quality-wise, no matter which you choose. From my perspective, choosing one was primarily based on flexibility and ease of switching between cartridges, since I knew I'd be reloading for multiple different ones. The manufacturers with the best systems for quick no-adjustment switching of dies are Hornady and Dillon. But Dillon doesn't offer it on a single-stage press...because they don't even make a single-stage press. So I'm going to go with the Hornady Lock-n-Load. So, let's say you finally pulled the trigger (Ha! See what I did there?!) on that .270 WSM you used to talk about and you'd like to load up some better-than-off-the-shelf hunting rounds for it. I'll be using pricing from Graf and Sons because they're very competative, excellent to do business with, their prices include shipping and it's where I've bought the most equipment and supplies from...
Let's start with the non-consumables that are not cartridge-specific (equipment and tools):
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The ABCs of Reloading[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](Used @ Amazon.com) $32.44[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Lock-n-Load Classic Press[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$133.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Press-Mounted Bullet Puller[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$25.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Plastic Case Tray from just about anybody[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](avg) $8.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lyman Case Prep Multi-Tool[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$24.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Any good balance beam powder scale[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](avg) $120.49[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]RCBS Quick Change Powder Funnel Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$13.09[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Powder Trickler[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$14.09[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Hand Priming Tool[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$39.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
OK, so we're at an average of $412.56 for your reusable, non-cartridge-specific equipment. This represents an investment that is amortizable over the life of your reloading hobby (assuming no upgrades to different equipment later, which is not even close to being a safe assumption). But taken care of properly, most of this gear should outlive you.
Now let's look at the practical minimum cartridge-specific equipment you'll need:
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lee .270 WSM Full Length Sizing 2-Die Set[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$30.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady .270 WSM Shell Holder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$4.89[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]2 Hornady L-n-L Die Bushings*[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$9.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]2 Hornady Die Lock Rings*[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$6.20[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]270-Caliber Collet for Bullet Puller[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
So here we have an investment of $61.77 for one cartridge. (Note that the items marked with a "*" are not actually cartridge-specific, but you will need dedicated units of them for every cartridge that you load. Since we're assuming the desire to load multiple different cartridges the prices indicated are based on buying in bulk packs (10 for the bushings and 12 for the lock rings) in order to substantially reduce their per-unit cost.)
And finally, let's look at components. These are the consumable items that will get used up as you reload and shoot. This one is a little tricky as some items are consumed immediately after a single use (powder, bullets and primers) while brass has a lifetime that spans multiple re-uses. And even there, how many uses you can get from your brass will depend on a multitude of factors (that I won't go into here). To keep it simple we're going to assume an average of 8 uses from brass that you will buy brand new (you'd get one fewer use but lower the purchase price by buying/scrounging once-fired brass, but that really complicates things...so let's ignore that option for now).
Costs are expressed on a per-round basis, and using some more-or-less average priced components for example (including the assumption that you will NOT be buying components in bulk, which increases the per-unit costs, of course). Real costs depending on your load goals may vary considerably (for example, Norma brass instead of Remington brass will increase your per-load case cost by ~60%):
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost Per Round[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Remington .270 WSM Brass[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.11[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Barnes 130 gr TTSX Bullet[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.68[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]CCI-200 Large Rifle Primer[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.03[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Alliant Reloader 19 Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
That gives a WAG of about $1.01 per round for hunting ammo that is custom-loaded for *your* rifle, vs. an average of somewhere around $2.50-$3.00 (even $4.00 for one 20-rd box I've seen) for premium factory .270 WSM loads. But then, this doesn't tell the whole story because you're going to expend at least 25 or so of your first reloaded rounds at the range just working up the load (you'd probably multiply that by at least 4 if you were developing a long-range competition-accuracy load).
See why it takes so long to answer this question? And you really don't even have a really accurate answer for your own needs, because all of this is heavily influenced by exactly what kind of loading you're going to do, how willing you are to spend money on extra/better equipment in order to save yourself time and effort, etc. Plus, there are all sorts of easy ways to reduce your costs: Buying in bulk, buying things on sale (even though you might not need them right away, but know you will eventually), scrounging once-fired brass, etc.
But what I have done here is enough homework based on current market prices in order for you to adjust the results up or down based on what you learn when you buy the first item in the first table and read it. Do that before you buy ANYTHING else...trust me on this. It's money well-spent that will save you headaches and mistakes later...well, at least most mistakes. You'll still make some. And if I know you like I think I do, you're going to want to upgrade to some of the better (and pricier) toys, like an electronic scale/powder dispenser.
I will now open the floor to questions.
Between Bob Peck and DParker, I thought we were gonna get all technical up in here...
I was kinda looking forward to it...:wink[/QUOTE]
"You know, sometimes you're high-maintenance...like a broad."
~ Jimmy Smits' character "Detective Bobby Simone" to his partner, Detective Andy Sipowicz, in [I]NYPD Blue[/I]
:wink
OK, OK...I've done this before in a previous somethingorothercountry life, but let's see if I can reproduce it. I'm going to keep it as simple as possible by pricing for only a single cartridge type (but assuming the desire to load multiple different cartridges at some point) and a good single-stage press with minimal recommended (by me) equipment and tools, because there's no real limit on cost once you start adding on goodies for the sake of extra accuracy, convenience, etc.
Of the major popular press manufacturers you really can't go wrong, quality-wise, no matter which you choose. From my perspective, choosing one was primarily based on flexibility and ease of switching between cartridges, since I knew I'd be reloading for multiple different ones. The manufacturers with the best systems for quick no-adjustment switching of dies are Hornady and Dillon. But Dillon doesn't offer it on a single-stage press...because they don't even make a single-stage press. So I'm going to go with the Hornady Lock-n-Load. So, let's say you finally pulled the trigger (Ha! See what I did there?!) on that .270 WSM you used to talk about and you'd like to load up some better-than-off-the-shelf hunting rounds for it. I'll be using pricing from Graf and Sons because they're very competative, excellent to do business with, their prices include shipping and it's where I've bought the most equipment and supplies from...
Let's start with the non-consumables that are not cartridge-specific (equipment and tools):
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The ABCs of Reloading[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](Used @ Amazon.com) $32.44[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Lock-n-Load Classic Press[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$133.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Press-Mounted Bullet Puller[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$25.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Plastic Case Tray from just about anybody[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](avg) $8.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lyman Case Prep Multi-Tool[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$24.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Any good balance beam powder scale[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT](avg) $120.49[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]RCBS Quick Change Powder Funnel Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$13.09[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Powder Trickler[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$14.09[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Hand Priming Tool[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$39.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
OK, so we're at an average of $412.56 for your reusable, non-cartridge-specific equipment. This represents an investment that is amortizable over the life of your reloading hobby (assuming no upgrades to different equipment later, which is not even close to being a safe assumption). But taken care of properly, most of this gear should outlive you.
Now let's look at the practical minimum cartridge-specific equipment you'll need:
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lee .270 WSM Full Length Sizing 2-Die Set[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$30.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady .270 WSM Shell Holder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$4.89[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]2 Hornady L-n-L Die Bushings*[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$9.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]2 Hornady Die Lock Rings*[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$6.20[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]270-Caliber Collet for Bullet Puller[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
So here we have an investment of $61.77 for one cartridge. (Note that the items marked with a "*" are not actually cartridge-specific, but you will need dedicated units of them for every cartridge that you load. Since we're assuming the desire to load multiple different cartridges the prices indicated are based on buying in bulk packs (10 for the bushings and 12 for the lock rings) in order to substantially reduce their per-unit cost.)
And finally, let's look at components. These are the consumable items that will get used up as you reload and shoot. This one is a little tricky as some items are consumed immediately after a single use (powder, bullets and primers) while brass has a lifetime that spans multiple re-uses. And even there, how many uses you can get from your brass will depend on a multitude of factors (that I won't go into here). To keep it simple we're going to assume an average of 8 uses from brass that you will buy brand new (you'd get one fewer use but lower the purchase price by buying/scrounging once-fired brass, but that really complicates things...so let's ignore that option for now).
Costs are expressed on a per-round basis, and using some more-or-less average priced components for example (including the assumption that you will NOT be buying components in bulk, which increases the per-unit costs, of course). Real costs depending on your load goals may vary considerably (for example, Norma brass instead of Remington brass will increase your per-load case cost by ~60%):
[INDENT][table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost Per Round[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Remington .270 WSM Brass[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.11[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Barnes 130 gr TTSX Bullet[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.68[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]CCI-200 Large Rifle Primer[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.03[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Alliant Reloader 19 Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$0.19[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table][/INDENT]
That gives a WAG of about $1.01 per round for hunting ammo that is custom-loaded for *your* rifle, vs. an average of somewhere around $2.50-$3.00 (even $4.00 for one 20-rd box I've seen) for premium factory .270 WSM loads. But then, this doesn't tell the whole story because you're going to expend at least 25 or so of your first reloaded rounds at the range just working up the load (you'd probably multiply that by at least 4 if you were developing a long-range competition-accuracy load).
See why it takes so long to answer this question? And you really don't even have a really accurate answer for your own needs, because all of this is heavily influenced by exactly what kind of loading you're going to do, how willing you are to spend money on extra/better equipment in order to save yourself time and effort, etc. Plus, there are all sorts of easy ways to reduce your costs: Buying in bulk, buying things on sale (even though you might not need them right away, but know you will eventually), scrounging once-fired brass, etc.
But what I have done here is enough homework based on current market prices in order for you to adjust the results up or down based on what you learn when you buy the first item in the first table and read it. Do that before you buy ANYTHING else...trust me on this. It's money well-spent that will save you headaches and mistakes later...well, at least most mistakes. You'll still make some. And if I know you like I think I do, you're going to want to upgrade to some of the better (and pricier) toys, like an electronic scale/powder dispenser.
I will now open the floor to questions.
28.) bluecat - 09/25/2013
Nice html tables.
29.) DParker - 09/26/2013
Oops! I just noticed that I hosed up the last entry in the last table. The "Item" column should read "Alliant Reloader 19 Powder", and obviously the "$0.19" figure should appear in the "Cost Per Round" column.
30.) OKY - 09/26/2013
More pics.
31.) Forkie McRut - 09/26/2013
DP pretty much covered it all. One thing I would add as a necessity is a good set of calipers for measuring your cartridge overall length. A tumbler as well would be recommended for cleaning your dirty brass.
I have the Hornady Classic press and prime my cases using it just fine. However, the $40 investment in the hand priming tool referenced will allow you to watch foosball or The Walking Dead while prepping cases.
I have the Hornady Classic press and prime my cases using it just fine. However, the $40 investment in the hand priming tool referenced will allow you to watch foosball or The Walking Dead while prepping cases.
32.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
That was excellent! I might even be able to make a decision with that info.
Thanks, DP!
:tu:
Thanks, DP!
:tu:
33.) DParker - 09/26/2013
[QUOTE=Forkie McRut;11054]DP pretty much covered it all. One thing I would add as a necessity is a good set of calipers for measuring your cartridge overall length.[/QUOTE]
Doh!! I [I]knew[/I] I would forget something. :groan: Thanks, Forkie. Yeah, a good set of calipers is definitely a requirement. I know there are a handfull of people out there that reload without them, but I never would. What exactly constitutes "good" when it comes to calipers can be a contentious issue, as can be the whole electronic vs. dial issue (which is as bad as the arguments over electronic powder measures vs. beam scales). But I have a Kobalt electronic caliper that I bought at Lowes for around $25 ([URL="http://www.lowes.com/pd_293883-16878-53247_0__?Ntt=kobalt+caliper&UserSearch=kobalt+caliper&productId=1242475&rpp=32"]goes for $27.68 today[/URL]) that has served me very well for several years now..so add that to the table of non-caliber-specific tools and equipment.
[QUOTE=Forkie McRut;11054]A tumbler as well would be recommended for cleaning your dirty brass.[/QUOTE]
True, and I wouldn't give mine up for anything. But if you wanted to you could get by without one, which is why I didn't include it as an essential.
Doh!! I [I]knew[/I] I would forget something. :groan: Thanks, Forkie. Yeah, a good set of calipers is definitely a requirement. I know there are a handfull of people out there that reload without them, but I never would. What exactly constitutes "good" when it comes to calipers can be a contentious issue, as can be the whole electronic vs. dial issue (which is as bad as the arguments over electronic powder measures vs. beam scales). But I have a Kobalt electronic caliper that I bought at Lowes for around $25 ([URL="http://www.lowes.com/pd_293883-16878-53247_0__?Ntt=kobalt+caliper&UserSearch=kobalt+caliper&productId=1242475&rpp=32"]goes for $27.68 today[/URL]) that has served me very well for several years now..so add that to the table of non-caliber-specific tools and equipment.
[QUOTE=Forkie McRut;11054]A tumbler as well would be recommended for cleaning your dirty brass.[/QUOTE]
True, and I wouldn't give mine up for anything. But if you wanted to you could get by without one, which is why I didn't include it as an essential.
34.) DParker - 09/26/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;11057]That was excellent! I might even be able to make a decision with that info.
Thanks, DP!
:tu:[/QUOTE]
No, no...thank [I]you[/I]. You have no idea how many years it's taken me to find an opportunity to use that line from [I]NYPD Blue[/I]. :grin:
Thanks, DP!
:tu:[/QUOTE]
No, no...thank [I]you[/I]. You have no idea how many years it's taken me to find an opportunity to use that line from [I]NYPD Blue[/I]. :grin:
35.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
LMAO!
:grin:
:grin:
36.) DParker - 09/26/2013
BTW, it should also be noted that you can generally save a few bucks by buying some/all of the more durable equipment (press, dies, etc) used rather than new if you're able to find someone getting rid of them locally. As I said before, with even ordinary care most of those items will outlive most of us, so stuff that's still in good shape should give you many years of useful service.
Now, for an example of how much more you can spend on this little activity, let's take a look at some of the additions, upgrades and general supplies I have sitting on my own bench...that I can think of right off the top of my head (I'll almost certainly forget something). Prices are current retail, not on sale and not what I paid when I bought them:
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The Lyman 2200 Turbo vibratory tumbler pictured in the first post[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$126.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Rotary Media Separator (basically a plastic bucket and a rotary seive for easily separating cleaned brass from the tumbler media)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$32.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Anyone's liquid case polish[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]~$10.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]12 lb bag of crushed walnut shell media for cleaning brass in the tumbler. Reusable many times. Cheapest from pet supply stores (used as litter for birds/reptiles)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$7.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]10 lb container of corn cob media for polishing brass or removing lube from brass, also in tumbler. Also reusable, though slightly less so than walnut[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$15.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The RCBS Trime Mate Case Prep Center pictured in the first post[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$129.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Small military crimp remover attachment for the Trim Mate (for reloading military surplus once-fired 5.56 NATO brass)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$19.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Large and small primer pocket uniformer attachments for the Trim Mate[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$53.98[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Combo electronic powder scale and dispenser (substitue for the beam scale and powder trickler). Frequently found on sale, and a few other manufacturers have recently released their own versions that are supposedly pretty good too, but less expensive. I have no idea how reliable they are in the long term though. My favorite piece of reloading gear.[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$364.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Baffle for press-mounted case-activated powder drop (drop comes with press listed below) for ensuring smooth flow of powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$8.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Lock-N-Load Auto Progressive press with case-activated powder drop. Replaces single-stage press and hand-primer tool and comes with 500 free Hornady bullets from a limited selection.[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$429.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lee 3-die sets (FL sizing, bullet-seating and factory crimp dies), shellplates (hold cases while they're in the press), bullet-puller collets, modified cases (rifle only, for use in OAL gauge listed below) and Hornady boxes for...[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT][/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]9mm Luger[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$93.96[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]223 Remington/5.56 NATO (RCBS universal decapping/lube die added)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$124.74[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT].243 Winchester (same shellplate used for .30-06 too, so that cost is averaged between the two)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$68.76[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT].30-06 Springfield[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$68.76[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]7.62x54 Russian (neck sizing die set added)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$148.25[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Can of Hornady One Shot case lube aerosol spray[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.29[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Headspace Gauge Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$39.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Comparator Set[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$30.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Straight OAL Gauge[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$34.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Concentricity Gauge[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$109.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]8 lbs Hogden Varget Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$170.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]8 lbs Hodgen Universal Clays Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$143.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]4 lbs Hodgden BL-C(2) Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$86.36[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1 lb RamShot Big Game Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$21.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1 lb RamShot Hunter Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$21.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1,000 Magtech Large Rifle Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$25.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]5,000 CCI-400 Small Rifle Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$141.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]5,000 CCI-500 Small Pistol Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$141.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
OK, that's enough. I'm not even going to try to tackle pricing on the 1,000s of pieces of brass and bullets. But now you see how quickly this can spiral out of control once you get away from the minimum essentials, and don't wait for stuff to go on sale. :-)
Now, for an example of how much more you can spend on this little activity, let's take a look at some of the additions, upgrades and general supplies I have sitting on my own bench...that I can think of right off the top of my head (I'll almost certainly forget something). Prices are current retail, not on sale and not what I paid when I bought them:
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The Lyman 2200 Turbo vibratory tumbler pictured in the first post[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$126.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Rotary Media Separator (basically a plastic bucket and a rotary seive for easily separating cleaned brass from the tumbler media)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$32.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Anyone's liquid case polish[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]~$10.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]12 lb bag of crushed walnut shell media for cleaning brass in the tumbler. Reusable many times. Cheapest from pet supply stores (used as litter for birds/reptiles)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$7.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]10 lb container of corn cob media for polishing brass or removing lube from brass, also in tumbler. Also reusable, though slightly less so than walnut[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$15.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]The RCBS Trime Mate Case Prep Center pictured in the first post[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$129.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Small military crimp remover attachment for the Trim Mate (for reloading military surplus once-fired 5.56 NATO brass)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$19.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Large and small primer pocket uniformer attachments for the Trim Mate[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$53.98[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Combo electronic powder scale and dispenser (substitue for the beam scale and powder trickler). Frequently found on sale, and a few other manufacturers have recently released their own versions that are supposedly pretty good too, but less expensive. I have no idea how reliable they are in the long term though. My favorite piece of reloading gear.[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$364.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Baffle for press-mounted case-activated powder drop (drop comes with press listed below) for ensuring smooth flow of powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$8.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Lock-N-Load Auto Progressive press with case-activated powder drop. Replaces single-stage press and hand-primer tool and comes with 500 free Hornady bullets from a limited selection.[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$429.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Lee 3-die sets (FL sizing, bullet-seating and factory crimp dies), shellplates (hold cases while they're in the press), bullet-puller collets, modified cases (rifle only, for use in OAL gauge listed below) and Hornady boxes for...[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT][/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]9mm Luger[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$93.96[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]223 Remington/5.56 NATO (RCBS universal decapping/lube die added)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$124.74[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT].243 Winchester (same shellplate used for .30-06 too, so that cost is averaged between the two)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$68.76[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT].30-06 Springfield[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$68.76[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][INDENT]7.62x54 Russian (neck sizing die set added)[/INDENT][/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$148.25[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Can of Hornady One Shot case lube aerosol spray[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.29[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Headspace Gauge Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$39.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Comparator Set[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$30.69[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Straight OAL Gauge[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$34.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]Hornady Concentricity Gauge[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$109.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]8 lbs Hogden Varget Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$170.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]8 lbs Hodgen Universal Clays Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$143.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]4 lbs Hodgden BL-C(2) Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$86.36[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1 lb RamShot Big Game Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$21.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1 lb RamShot Hunter Smokeless Powder[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$21.59[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]1,000 Magtech Large Rifle Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$25.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]5,000 CCI-400 Small Rifle Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$141.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td]5,000 CCI-500 Small Pistol Primers[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$141.99[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
OK, that's enough. I'm not even going to try to tackle pricing on the 1,000s of pieces of brass and bullets. But now you see how quickly this can spiral out of control once you get away from the minimum essentials, and don't wait for stuff to go on sale. :-)
37.) bluecat - 09/26/2013
Looks complicated.
38.) DParker - 09/26/2013
[QUOTE=bluecat;11072]Looks complicated.[/QUOTE]
Only because I'm a big kid that can't resist cool toys.
Only because I'm a big kid that can't resist cool toys.
39.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
Okay! I'm ready to go shopping! :-)
But I can see it's going to be a little more complicated than that time I thought I wanted to get into making mudpies with an Easy Bake Oven...
But I can see it's going to be a little more complicated than that time I thought I wanted to get into making mudpies with an Easy Bake Oven...
40.) Hunter - 09/26/2013
Swampy, let us know when you start up so we can follow the news in case of any NC explosions! :wave:
41.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
I'm clearing a work space right by my radiator now, so it won't be long!
Also have my brass-bolstered Buck knife ready to hit anything that needs fine adjustment...Maybe trim up this extension cord that keeps sparking...
Also have my brass-bolstered Buck knife ready to hit anything that needs fine adjustment...Maybe trim up this extension cord that keeps sparking...
42.) DParker - 09/26/2013
Wait! I haven't even gone over the workbench yet. :p
(A post on that subject is in-progress.)
(A post on that subject is in-progress.)
43.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
Excellent. Make sure you give me the measurements. I'm working with a tight space here...
Plus I need some ideas how to keep the cats off it...The nights are getting chilly and some of them want to come inside now...
Plus I need some ideas how to keep the cats off it...The nights are getting chilly and some of them want to come inside now...
44.) bluecat - 09/26/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;11087]Excellent. Make sure you give me the measurements. I'm working with a tight space here...
Plus I need some ideas how to keep the cats off it...The nights are getting chilly and some of them want to come inside now...[/QUOTE]
Remove cat food from bench.
Plus I need some ideas how to keep the cats off it...The nights are getting chilly and some of them want to come inside now...[/QUOTE]
Remove cat food from bench.
45.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
Do you ever have to spread out powder in a big tray for any reason?... 'cause I'm thinking I'd have to be careful about that, too.
46.) DParker - 09/26/2013
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;11093]Do you ever have to spread out powder in a big tray for any reason?...[/QUOTE]
Only when we find out one of the local gals weighs the same as a duck and we need to get a large fire started quickly. Other than that, no.
Only when we find out one of the local gals weighs the same as a duck and we need to get a large fire started quickly. Other than that, no.
47.) Swamp Fox - 09/26/2013
:grin:
This new learning amazes me, sir.
Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
This new learning amazes me, sir.
Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
48.) bluecat - 09/27/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;11099]Only when we find out one of the local gals weighs the same as a duck and we need to get a large fire started quickly. Other than that, no.[/QUOTE]
I like it.
I like it.
49.) Swamp Fox - 09/27/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;11099]Only when we find out one of the local gals weighs the same as a duck and we need to get a large fire started quickly. Other than that, no.[/QUOTE]
I've thought about this overnight and just want to clarify, because you need to know these things when you're a king, you know:
I think what you're saying is I need the largest powder scale I can find, as well as one that's safe for waterfowl?...
I wish they still made this one, because it seems pretty accurate...
I've thought about this overnight and just want to clarify, because you need to know these things when you're a king, you know:
I think what you're saying is I need the largest powder scale I can find, as well as one that's safe for waterfowl?...
I wish they still made this one, because it seems pretty accurate...
50.) bluecat - 09/27/2013
Huzzah!
51.) DParker - 09/27/2013
OK, the workbench...
There are lots of plans freely available on the web, as well as a really good one in the "ABCs of Reloading" book I recommended, and all sorts of ways of putting a reloading bench together. From simple little corner units for a spare room in an apartment to major industrial-strength projects. All that matters is that it be very sturdy (operating the press will be putting a fair amount of repetative stress not only on the surface to which it's mounted, but whatever that surface is attached to as well) and have enough work and storage space for you to work and safely store your explosive components ("safely" meaning not keeping primers and powder right next to one another).
All of the plans I found were either not quite what I wanted or were overly complicated, what with me being a lousy carpenter and all. So I designed my own bench and shelves, but based the whole thing on the "2x4 Basics" workbench and shelving brackets kit, which can be had for about $80 if you look around, and comes with framing and shelving brackets, all the connecting hardware necessary and some extra goodies for hanging a few tools and such. It's also pretty much idiot-proof if you can operate common power tools and make straight cuts without lopping off body parts, and have the discipline to observe the "measure twice, cut once" doctrine. Lumber is not included, of course, because what you need depends entirely on how large you want your resulting bench and shelves to be. The bench brackets will support a bench with work surface approximately 3' above the floor and two shelves underneath, each measuring up to 8' wide x 4' deep and allegedly capable of holding up to 1,000 lbs. Again, that's *each*. The most depth I could manage in my garage and still fit a car in it with all of the other junk I have in there was 2.5'. And I guesstimated that 6' of width, yielding a work surface of 15 ft[SUP]2[/SUP] would be plenty. But if I had it to do over again I'd go with the full 8', as I've come to learn that enough space is never enough. I'm not really cramped for work space, but more would definitely be better. Oh well.
I also built a set of 1 ft deep open shelves partitioned into 6 different-sized cubby-holes to set on top of the bench, but without taking up any of the work surface (save for 1/2" wide bottoms of the vertical boards that frame it). As the kit's name implies, 2x4s (cheap pine) were used for the framing. Given the humidity in the summers I was concerned about plywood warping, so I used 3/4" MDF for the work surface, 1/2" MDF for the lower shelving and sides of the top shelving unit, and 3/8" MDF for the top horizontal shelves, dividers and backing. If I were to do it again I would use regular plywood for the whole shelving unit as I found the MDF, while plenty strong enough for the purpose, is a pain to work with in terms of using wood screws in the edges as connecting hardware. But it's held up very well so far. I also used a sheet of pegboard as the backing between the work surface and the bottom of the upper shelving unit, so I could hang small tools and supplies from it. I also bought some small hinges I was going to use to mount doors on the shelving compartments. But after getting the shelves together I decided that they were not only not worth the effort, as there's no reason for me to care about the shelf contents being visible. And it was late by that point, and I was sweaty...and lazy.
I used one application of some brown (I don't recall the exact shade) stain on the wood surfaces, just to make it a little less rough looking, before brushing on a few coats (4, IIRC) of a satin finish urethane. But the stain didn't work well with the MDF and ended up with a blotchy finish. Again, if I had to do it again I'd use paint instead, with a relatively thick layer of urethane.
I'm not providing plans here, but I can tell you that the overall dimensions are. Here, to the best of my aging recollection, is a list of materials and what they'd cost at my local hardware megalomart today in order to give you a rough idea of what it would take to do now:
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Qty.[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]2x4 Basics Workbench and Shelving Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$79.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]3[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]12' lengths 2x4" pine[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$14.46[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 3/4" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$34.68[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]2[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 1/2" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$53.96[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]2[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 1/4" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$28.60[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4' x 8' sheet of pegboard[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$17.98[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]Bunch of minor hardware for the shelving (small wood screws, a few braces, etc)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]~$12.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]1 qt can of MinWax oil-based stain[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$7.77[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]1 qt can of MinWax satin finish polyurethane[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.77[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
One evening of a work (plus a light dusting of 4-letter words at strategic opportunities) and...viola:
There are lots of plans freely available on the web, as well as a really good one in the "ABCs of Reloading" book I recommended, and all sorts of ways of putting a reloading bench together. From simple little corner units for a spare room in an apartment to major industrial-strength projects. All that matters is that it be very sturdy (operating the press will be putting a fair amount of repetative stress not only on the surface to which it's mounted, but whatever that surface is attached to as well) and have enough work and storage space for you to work and safely store your explosive components ("safely" meaning not keeping primers and powder right next to one another).
All of the plans I found were either not quite what I wanted or were overly complicated, what with me being a lousy carpenter and all. So I designed my own bench and shelves, but based the whole thing on the "2x4 Basics" workbench and shelving brackets kit, which can be had for about $80 if you look around, and comes with framing and shelving brackets, all the connecting hardware necessary and some extra goodies for hanging a few tools and such. It's also pretty much idiot-proof if you can operate common power tools and make straight cuts without lopping off body parts, and have the discipline to observe the "measure twice, cut once" doctrine. Lumber is not included, of course, because what you need depends entirely on how large you want your resulting bench and shelves to be. The bench brackets will support a bench with work surface approximately 3' above the floor and two shelves underneath, each measuring up to 8' wide x 4' deep and allegedly capable of holding up to 1,000 lbs. Again, that's *each*. The most depth I could manage in my garage and still fit a car in it with all of the other junk I have in there was 2.5'. And I guesstimated that 6' of width, yielding a work surface of 15 ft[SUP]2[/SUP] would be plenty. But if I had it to do over again I'd go with the full 8', as I've come to learn that enough space is never enough. I'm not really cramped for work space, but more would definitely be better. Oh well.
I also built a set of 1 ft deep open shelves partitioned into 6 different-sized cubby-holes to set on top of the bench, but without taking up any of the work surface (save for 1/2" wide bottoms of the vertical boards that frame it). As the kit's name implies, 2x4s (cheap pine) were used for the framing. Given the humidity in the summers I was concerned about plywood warping, so I used 3/4" MDF for the work surface, 1/2" MDF for the lower shelving and sides of the top shelving unit, and 3/8" MDF for the top horizontal shelves, dividers and backing. If I were to do it again I would use regular plywood for the whole shelving unit as I found the MDF, while plenty strong enough for the purpose, is a pain to work with in terms of using wood screws in the edges as connecting hardware. But it's held up very well so far. I also used a sheet of pegboard as the backing between the work surface and the bottom of the upper shelving unit, so I could hang small tools and supplies from it. I also bought some small hinges I was going to use to mount doors on the shelving compartments. But after getting the shelves together I decided that they were not only not worth the effort, as there's no reason for me to care about the shelf contents being visible. And it was late by that point, and I was sweaty...and lazy.
I used one application of some brown (I don't recall the exact shade) stain on the wood surfaces, just to make it a little less rough looking, before brushing on a few coats (4, IIRC) of a satin finish urethane. But the stain didn't work well with the MDF and ended up with a blotchy finish. Again, if I had to do it again I'd use paint instead, with a relatively thick layer of urethane.
I'm not providing plans here, but I can tell you that the overall dimensions are. Here, to the best of my aging recollection, is a list of materials and what they'd cost at my local hardware megalomart today in order to give you a rough idea of what it would take to do now:
[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Qty.[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Item[/B][/CENTER][/td]
\t[td][CENTER][B]Cost[/B][/CENTER][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]2x4 Basics Workbench and Shelving Kit[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$79.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]3[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]12' lengths 2x4" pine[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$14.46[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 3/4" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$34.68[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]2[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 1/2" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$53.96[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]2[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4x8' sheet of 1/4" MDF[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$28.60[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]4' x 8' sheet of pegboard[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$17.98[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]Bunch of minor hardware for the shelving (small wood screws, a few braces, etc)[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]~$12.00[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]1 qt can of MinWax oil-based stain[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$7.77[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
\t[td][CENTER]1[/CENTER][/td]
\t[td]1 qt can of MinWax satin finish polyurethane[/td]
\t[td][RIGHT]$10.77[/RIGHT][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
One evening of a work (plus a light dusting of 4-letter words at strategic opportunities) and...viola:
52.) DParker - 09/27/2013
And I'd better head Swampy off before he complains that I didn't provide dimensions. To keep the drawing from getting too busy/messy, lumber dimensions are not spelled out as they're easily deducible from my previous description. And I'm including this one as an uploaded file from my PC (hence the thumbnail display you'll need to click on) rather than go through the Photobucket hassle.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]249[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]249[/ATTACH]
53.) bluecat - 09/27/2013
[QUOTE=DParker;11151]
[/QUOTE]
Where is your swear jar?
[/QUOTE]Where is your swear jar?
54.) DParker - 09/27/2013
[QUOTE=bluecat;11157]Where is your swear jar?[/QUOTE]
It's in the *@&#^$%ing kitchen.
It's in the *@&#^$%ing kitchen.
55.) Swamp Fox - 09/27/2013
:-)...
56.) Deerminator - 09/28/2013
Cool thread DP.
How many times can brass be reloaded?
Are the nickel shells better than brass for reloading? How many times can they be reloaded?
How many times can brass be reloaded?
Are the nickel shells better than brass for reloading? How many times can they be reloaded?
57.) DParker - 09/28/2013
[QUOTE=Deerminator;11179]Cool thread DP.[/QUOTE]
Thanks.
[QUOTE=Deerminator;11179]How many times can brass be reloaded?[/QUOTE]
That depends on several factors. The initial quality of the brass, how "hot" your loads are, neck-sizing vs. full-length sizing, whether or not you anneal, etc. Most well-made cases loaded to moderate powder charges and full-length resized each time can probably be safely reused 7 or 8 times, on average (though there's a lot of variation, YMMV, offer not valid in all 57 states). That can be significantly improved upon with bottle-neck cases (generally rifle rounds) by neck-sizing only, which is a good option if you're only using the loads for one bolt/single shot rifle (cases fired from semi-auto guns need to be full-length resized fairly frequently...see my previous post on that topic). And if you really want to extend case life you can periodically anneal them. After a number of firings the brass in the case neck begins to harden, which will make it more brittle and hasten failure of the metal. Annealing is the process of heating the case necks (but ONLY the necks) to a target temperature and then letting them cool. This has the effect of softening the brass back to its original factory state (or at least quite close to it), thus preventing the brittling effect of the stress of repeated firings. In some cases this can extend the life of the brass by an order of magnitude, though I doubt that is the norm. As a bonus, annealing at each reload also results in far more consistent neck tension on the bullet, which is essential to accuracy in high-precision loads.
[QUOTE=Deerminator;11179]Are the nickel shells better than brass for reloading? How many times can they be reloaded?[/QUOTE]
The only advantage of modern nickel-plated brass (that's what they are, not nickel *instead* of brass) is it's lower friction, which makes chambering and extraction a little smoother and more reliable in guns that might be a bit finicky about such things, like some semi-auto pistols. Naturally this is a very desirable feature for rounds that are to be used in a self-defense gun, but far less critical for other uses...especially if your gun reliably chambers/extracts regular brass cases just fine.
But nickel is also a little harder than brass, and a little less forgiving when it comes to resizing and belling of the case mouth (in straight-walled cartridges), and the plating can sometimes flake off if the working of the case is extra strenuous. Because of the extra hardness you won't get as many reuses out of nickel-plated cases, which is a double-whammy because they're more expensive to begin with.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=Deerminator;11179]How many times can brass be reloaded?[/QUOTE]
That depends on several factors. The initial quality of the brass, how "hot" your loads are, neck-sizing vs. full-length sizing, whether or not you anneal, etc. Most well-made cases loaded to moderate powder charges and full-length resized each time can probably be safely reused 7 or 8 times, on average (though there's a lot of variation, YMMV, offer not valid in all 57 states). That can be significantly improved upon with bottle-neck cases (generally rifle rounds) by neck-sizing only, which is a good option if you're only using the loads for one bolt/single shot rifle (cases fired from semi-auto guns need to be full-length resized fairly frequently...see my previous post on that topic). And if you really want to extend case life you can periodically anneal them. After a number of firings the brass in the case neck begins to harden, which will make it more brittle and hasten failure of the metal. Annealing is the process of heating the case necks (but ONLY the necks) to a target temperature and then letting them cool. This has the effect of softening the brass back to its original factory state (or at least quite close to it), thus preventing the brittling effect of the stress of repeated firings. In some cases this can extend the life of the brass by an order of magnitude, though I doubt that is the norm. As a bonus, annealing at each reload also results in far more consistent neck tension on the bullet, which is essential to accuracy in high-precision loads.
[QUOTE=Deerminator;11179]Are the nickel shells better than brass for reloading? How many times can they be reloaded?[/QUOTE]
The only advantage of modern nickel-plated brass (that's what they are, not nickel *instead* of brass) is it's lower friction, which makes chambering and extraction a little smoother and more reliable in guns that might be a bit finicky about such things, like some semi-auto pistols. Naturally this is a very desirable feature for rounds that are to be used in a self-defense gun, but far less critical for other uses...especially if your gun reliably chambers/extracts regular brass cases just fine.
But nickel is also a little harder than brass, and a little less forgiving when it comes to resizing and belling of the case mouth (in straight-walled cartridges), and the plating can sometimes flake off if the working of the case is extra strenuous. Because of the extra hardness you won't get as many reuses out of nickel-plated cases, which is a double-whammy because they're more expensive to begin with.
58.) Deerminator - 09/29/2013
Interesting, thanks DP.
I was given some reloaded 45 ammo once and in the first 3 shots I noticed the shell caseings cracking, 4th shot looked OK, but the 5th shot lodged a lead ball in my barrel. Had a heck of a time taking it apart. Come to think of it, I couldn't get my 45 apart. Gunsmith had to do it. Got rid of that box and have been very reluctant to use anything but new ammo since.
I was given some reloaded 45 ammo once and in the first 3 shots I noticed the shell caseings cracking, 4th shot looked OK, but the 5th shot lodged a lead ball in my barrel. Had a heck of a time taking it apart. Come to think of it, I couldn't get my 45 apart. Gunsmith had to do it. Got rid of that box and have been very reluctant to use anything but new ammo since.
59.) DParker - 09/29/2013
A pretty widely respected set of rules are to never let someone else shoot your handloads in their gun(s), and never shoot anyone else's handloads in [I]your[/I] gun(s). Now you know one of the reasons why. When the bullet jammed in your barrel did the round make just a *pop* rather than a loud *bang* like it should have?
60.) OKY - 09/29/2013
That can be a pretty dangerous situation. Had it contained enough powder to cycle but not push the bullet out, parts could have gone flying!
DP, don't most progressive loaders for the charging station? If I remember correctly, it's more for keeping you from a double charge as opposed to short or no charge.
DP, don't most progressive loaders for the charging station? If I remember correctly, it's more for keeping you from a double charge as opposed to short or no charge.
61.) OKY - 09/29/2013
This guy has some neat ideas to make the process easier. [video=youtube;CFJ8OmH0lEo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFJ8OmH0lEo&list=PLBC7E011C6435C4C3[/video]
62.) DParker - 09/29/2013
[QUOTE=OKY;11230]That can be a pretty dangerous situation. Had it contained enough powder to cycle but not push the bullet out, parts could have gone flying![/QUOTE]
Exactly. I suspect he had a squib load there.
[QUOTE=OKY;11230]DP, don't most progressive loaders for the charging station? If I remember correctly, it's more for keeping you from a double charge as opposed to short or no charge.[/QUOTE]
You seem to have dropped a couple of words here, but I'm going to guess you're talking about something like a "powder cop" die that alerts you to a case that's been double-charged. If that's what you're referring to then they're a piece of equipment you have to buy separately.
[QUOTE=OKY;11233]This guy has some neat ideas to make the process easier. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFJ8OmH0lEo&list=PLBC7E011C6435C4C3[/url][/QUOTE]
Press lighting is certainly a good idea. My bench is already pretty well lit, but I'm considering adding something like that anyway. Fortunately for my lazy ass Hornady and others already sell pre-made light strips specifically for that purpose:
[URL="http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Light-Strip/"]http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Light-Strip/[/URL]
I imagine you can likely find something similar (and probably cheaper) at a hardware store.
Exactly. I suspect he had a squib load there.
[QUOTE=OKY;11230]DP, don't most progressive loaders for the charging station? If I remember correctly, it's more for keeping you from a double charge as opposed to short or no charge.[/QUOTE]
You seem to have dropped a couple of words here, but I'm going to guess you're talking about something like a "powder cop" die that alerts you to a case that's been double-charged. If that's what you're referring to then they're a piece of equipment you have to buy separately.
[QUOTE=OKY;11233]This guy has some neat ideas to make the process easier. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFJ8OmH0lEo&list=PLBC7E011C6435C4C3[/url][/QUOTE]
Press lighting is certainly a good idea. My bench is already pretty well lit, but I'm considering adding something like that anyway. Fortunately for my lazy ass Hornady and others already sell pre-made light strips specifically for that purpose:
[URL="http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Light-Strip/"]http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Light-Strip/[/URL]
I imagine you can likely find something similar (and probably cheaper) at a hardware store.
63.) OKY - 09/30/2013
Wow, I dropped more than just a few words. Don't most progressive loaders come with, or have the ability to use a safety device for the charging station? I had heard of safety devices but didn't know if it was included or an add-on.
This keyboard likes to drop letters and the occasional word but usually not that many at one time.
This keyboard likes to drop letters and the occasional word but usually not that many at one time.