1.) Swamp Fox - 11/30/2017

I've been meaning to post that question for several weeks but have just been too distracted lately to put coherent thoughts together. But I keep tossing it around in my brain since I noticed a while back that it's not as easy to find a .308 rifle as it used to be. I can't give an example of a diminished line off the top of my head--except that they all seem to be--but let me just say that I went browsing around some main-line rifles as well as some less-common makers and it's tough out there. You would think that there might be a lot of people looking for a .30 caliber---suitable for mid-range elk, say---that doesn't knock you into next week, but I wonder if people are just defaulting to a .300 Win Mag etc. and sucking up the beating. Is it all about sexiness these days? 'Cause the .308 ain't sexy.

The scout rifle concept seems to be propping up the .308, but I wonder what else there is to keep it going?

When I got a wild hair to Google "Is the .308 Dead?" to see if anyone else was wondering the same thing as I was, I was amazed to find that exact question being asked a lot. ---So it's NOT just me ... LOL


Here you go. I've haven't read very deeply in here yet, but in the interest of friendly forum banter, have at it...:


:pop:


Is the .308 Dead as a Long-Range Tactical Round? - Guns & Ammo
[url]http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/rifle-ammo/is-the-308-dead-as-a-long-range-tactical-round/[/url]


American Hunter | Opinion: The .308 is a Dog
[url]https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/6/22/opinion-the-308-is-a-dog/[/url]


Is the .308 a Viable Long Range Cartridge? - Petersen's Hunting
[url]www.petersenshunting.com/galleries/308-winchester-viable-long-range-cartridge/[/url]


Is the .308 Dead Yet? - The Firing Line Forums
[url]https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61272[/url]

Is the .308 Dead? - HuntingNet.com Forums
[url]https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/guns/245995-308-dead.html[/url]


Calm Down! .308 Isn't Dead! - LONG RANGE SHOOTERS
[url]https://www.lrs-usa.com/2017/08/14/calm-308-isnt-dead/[/url]

2.) DParker - 11/30/2017

I'll try to add more when I have time later, but for now I'm just going to answer, "No."

3.) Bob Peck - 11/30/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;53417]'Cause the .308 ain't sexy. The scout rifle concept seems to be propping up the .308, but I wonder what else there is to keep it going? [/QUOTE]

The .308 is definitely sexy. I have seven (7) shots and seven (7) dead deer this season to prove it's sexiness. Longest range shot was 185 yards. Shortest was 5 yards.

I have various other 30 caliber options (30.06, 32 Special for the 1952 era Model 94, 300 Win Mag, .300 Ultra Mag) but it's this round and this rifle I keep hunting with. I love the bark even with the muzzle brake.

Granted these rounds were propelled from a stock Armalite .308 using Winchester factory ammo (150 grain ballistic tip) so no telling how much more accurate this gun might become if I hand loaded but I'm old and lazy so that's not going to happen.

I have accumulated a store of about 1000+ rounds for this rifle and the old adage about supply being available if the demand exists holds true. All major box stores (Cabelas, Bass, Dick's, etc.) carry quite a variety of .308 with an equal variety of bullet weights. Field & Stream stores (call it Dick's) are selling a 200 round ammo box. I've never seen quantity .308 in any box store unless it was Mil surplus. I snapped that up a few weeks back on the odd-man-out shelves at Cabelas in Richmond, VA.

The 32 Special round for the 1952 era lever action Model 94? Uh. Not so much. Although I was pleased to see Hornady started producing a LEVERevolution FTX in 165 grain for this rifle. I'm buying it up as I find it which isn't everywhere like the .308. Love this rifle and this round!

P.S
The industry loves the caliber debate which has raged onward and downward for decades. It helps sell product and keeps the absolute scientific minutiae of ballistic coefficients and bullet design an absolute mystery to all but the select super smart few of which I am not.

4.) Swamp Fox - 11/30/2017

I think we have to work out some terminology here, before we get all tangled up.

There’s effective:




And then there’s sexy:






There’s .308 sexy:




And there’s sexy sexy:






So, to summarize, there’s .308:




And “Not .308”:

5.) Swamp Fox - 11/30/2017

The way I’ve been looking at it, once you decide you want something larger than .28 caliber or you decide you want to shoot longer ranges, I’m not seeing why you’d choose a .308 when you have so many good alternatives to meet either or both of those demands.

Even more so if you don’t want to step up significantly in recoil to gain either bullet diameter or flattest trajectories.

6.) Bob Peck - 11/30/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;53424]I’m not seeing why you’d choose a .308 when you have so many good alternatives to meet either or both of those demands. [/QUOTE]
Some of us have been happily married for over 30 years and actually respect the women we're blessed with even though there may be so many good alternatives. Radar is deliberately detuned for the sake of harmony but make no mistake, old(er) mature married guys blessed with great women to share our lives with know the difference between sexy and effective. We learned that in 4th grade.

In fact, most of us are so sophisticated and skilled we have both. Such is my .308

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.

7.) DParker - 12/01/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;53424]The way I’ve been looking at it, once you decide you want something larger than .28 caliber or you decide you want to shoot longer ranges, I’m not seeing why you’d choose a .308 when you have so many good alternatives to meet either or both of those demands.[/QUOTE]

.308 is still attractive because of availability and selection of both rifles and ammo as well as general-purpose suitability, assuming those are concerns on which you place significant weight. And I say this who doesn't own even a single bang stick chambered in .308 Win (or in 7.62x51mm NATO). There are many offerings today in the 6-6.5mm (~.236-~.256) range that outperform .308 in terms of accuracy at extra-long ranges, but the difference isn't an important issue for 99.9% of hunters. Now, if your game is punching holes in paper for fun at over 300 yds then, yeah...what the aforementioned measured-in-metric cartridges bring to the table will make them better choices. On the other hand, if your goal is to knock down medium-to-large tasty animals then .308 tipped with the appropriate weight projectile will do the job on pretty much anything in N. America out to the distances at which the vast majority of hunters ought to be keeping their shots within. Of course, the same could be said of just about any other .30-caliber cartridge, which is where the .308's availability becomes an asset. And although .30-06 edges it out in that department, it doesn't do so by enough to matter to most folks. And for many the flatter trajectory of .308 is a nice little bonus.

But I'm spending my time killing spikes from 60 yds with a 126 year-old Commie cartridge out of a 74+ year-old Commie rifle....so what do I know? :grin:

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;53424]Even more so if you don’t want to step up significantly in recoil to gain either bullet diameter or flattest trajectories.[/QUOTE]

8.) DParker - 12/01/2017

[QUOTE=Bob Peck;53425]Some of us have been happily married for over 30 years and actually respect the women we're blessed with even though there may be so many good alternatives.[/QUOTE]

Same here. But to be fair, I think he's talking about making that choice in the first place, not making it a 2nd time and tossing your first choice away in favor of something shinier and newer.

9.) DParker - 12/01/2017

BTW, I did a Google Image Search on the last pic (the young lass w/the scoped .50 cal) and it came back with "Best guess for this image: safety harbor 50 bmg". I think it's safe to conclude that Google is gay...not that there's anything wrong with that.

10.) Swamp Fox - 12/01/2017

[QUOTE=Bob Peck;53425]Some of us have been happily married for over 30 years and actually respect the women we're blessed with even though there may be so many good alternatives. Radar is deliberately detuned for the sake of harmony but make no mistake, old(er) mature married guys blessed with great women to share our lives with know the difference between sexy and effective. We learned that in 4th grade.

In fact, most of us are so sophisticated and skilled we have both. Such is my .308 [/QUOTE]

Right. I knew that was coming, LOL.

I don't think too many people dis the .308 in a vacuum. If that's the rifle somebody likes, more power to him. I was just wondering if people were[B] choosing [/B]it anymore, when they had or wanted a choice. I think what I've seen in the market is fewer rifles being chambered for it. Seems like that says something, if my perception is accurate.

The scout rifle concept might prop up new sales, as will tradition. Older favorite rifles--and there are a lot of them--keep demand for ammo up. But if someone is surveying the landscape fresh, looking for a new firearm, how often is he choosing the .308 Win.?

The only case for the .308 that one can make without objection, as far as I can tell, is when the hunter insists on a minimum .30 caliber bullet for moderate ranges with moderate recoil. I think you have to check each of those three boxes to walk out of the store with a .308 rather than something else, though. If one is not insistent on .30 caliber, the case falls apart completely. It falls apart at longer ranges. And it falls apart if trying to minimize recoil.

Personally, I’m favorably disposed to the .308. I just don’t know why I’d buy one.





[QUOTE=DParker;53426].308 is still attractive because of availability and selection of both rifles and ammo as well as general-purpose suitability, assuming those are concerns on which you place significant weight. And I say this who doesn't own even a single bang stick chambered in .308 Win (or in 7.62x51mm NATO). There are many offerings today in the 6-6.5mm (~.236-~.256) range that outperform .308 in terms of accuracy at extra-long ranges, but the difference isn't an important issue for 99.9% of hunters. Now, if your game is punching holes in paper for fun at over 300 yds then, yeah...what the aforementioned measured-in-metric cartridges bring to the table will make them better choices. On the other hand, if your goal is to knock down medium-to-large tasty animals then .308 tipped with the appropriate weight projectile will do the job on pretty much anything in N. America out to the distances at which the vast majority of hunters ought to be keeping their shots within. Of course, the same could be said of just about any other .30-caliber cartridge, which is where the .308's availability becomes an asset. And although .30-06 edges it out in that department, it doesn't do so by enough to matter to most folks. And for many the flatter trajectory of .308 is a nice little bonus.

But I'm spending my time killing spikes from 60 yds with a 126 year-old Commie cartridge out of a 74+ year-old Commie rifle....so what do I know? :grin:[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=DParker;53427]Same here. But to be fair, I think he's talking about making that choice in the first place, not making it a 2nd time and tossing your first choice away in favor of something shinier and newer.[/QUOTE]


Correctomundo on all counts in both posts, per my reply to Bob.


[QUOTE=DParker;53428]BTW, I did a Google Image Search on the last pic (the young lass w/the scoped .50 cal) and it came back with "Best guess for this image: safety harbor 50 bmg". I think it's safe to conclude that Google is gay...not that there's anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE]


LOL!

11.) Swamp Fox - 12/01/2017

I wonder if the "You can find the ammo in the middle of nowhere" bullet point is eventually going to go away.

See what I did there? --How lame was that?--LOL.

Hey, it's Friday.

Something to think about, though.

12.) bluecat - 12/01/2017

I think I see where you're aiming on this one. Well, if their out, they'll just have to stock more.