1.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

What's everyone's local situation as far as populations, control, current thinking of biologists and hunters, etc.?

I'm trying to get a handle on how things may differ in different parts of the country, and how attitudes may have changed over time.

There was an excellent article in D&DH this spring by a biologist, which echoed some of my gut-instinct thoughts. It went into how much impact coyotes are really having and how coyote control works or doesn't work. I'll dig it up if anyone's interested.

While we're at it, if you have an idea of whether DEER populations are up or down in your locale, I'm very interested in that. Compared to 5, 10 and 15 years ago, say.


BTW, I saw something recently about Illinois using coyotes to control rats and such. In Chicago, for instance.

After digging a little more, it seems that the idea is actually being encouraged.


[url]https://www.timeout.com/chicago/blog/the-city-wants-to-enlist-the-help-of-coyotes-to-fight-off-rats-041516[/url]

[url]http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/coyotes_in_new_york_and_chicago_urban_ecology_of_rats_geese_deer_feral_cats.html[/url]

2.) Jon - 07/07/2017

We don't have any substantial coyote population here in Delaware. They are here and increasing in numbers but as of now, very few reside here. In all my time in the woods, I've seen 1 and have never had one on camera.
Our deer population has increased, they did a FLIR inventory 3 years back and compared it to one done a few years before which indicated the increase. We also continue to kill more every year with less hunting licenses sold which tells me there are more deer out there.

3.) DParker - 07/07/2017

We have plenty of coyotes around here, but you rarely see them during the day. In fact I can only recall actually seeing 2 while hunting (more on the side of the highway though), including a young one that popped out from behind a bush about 5 yds right in front of my son and I while we were still hunting along a power line easement. The "Oh, crap!" expression on his face when he noticed us was priceless.

Everything I've read...as well as my own anecdotal observations...suggest that they don't have an appreciable negative impact on otherwise healthy E. Texas whitetail populations. At least, not enough to require any intervention.

4.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

Swampy, are you writing a paper for your biology class?

I know we have a bunch. How much they affect things, I really don't know. When they start up in the evening, it's quite the sound.

The farmers have a legitimate beef with them.

5.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49926]Swampy, are you writing a paper for your biology class?

I know we have a bunch. How much they affect things, I really don't know. When they start up in the evening, it's quite the sound.

The farmers have a legitimate beef with them.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't think farmers have that much of a steak in this.

Okay, maybe chicken farmers...But maybe they should just show more courage.

6.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49926]Swampy, are you writing a paper for your biology class?

[/QUOTE]


Women's studies.


Last semester it was cougars. Just my luck that it's coyotes for the summer period.

In the fall I'm hoping it's kittens.

7.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

We don't have many where I hunt, either. We have a lot more talk about them than evidence, as far as hunting goes. I'd say they're more prevalent where I am in SC than on my stomping grounds in NC. Other parts of both states have more than I run into. I hear them at night sometimes both places. That didn't start until maybe 10 years ago, probably more like seven or eight. The area I hunt most in SC is trapped every winter; they don't come up with much.

A friend of mine five minutes down the road in NC says he sees them all the time right here. Locally, I think I've seen one, ever. The geography forms a big "gut" running right toward his place. I must be a little bit too far outside the funnel.

Cutting down the big woods all around me for development doesn't help much either. Too much commotion. But I bet the coyotes like it when the land gets opened up and they can hunt better. The developers might be going a little overboard, though, unless you just like your homes and businesses to look like they were dropped from spaceships onto the surface of the moon.

But I digress.

Lots of talk here in the last few years about the effect of coyotes on the local deer populations, especially on fawns. This was prompted by a scientific study in SC. I've always been skeptical. The article I mentioned above supported much if not all my skepticism. The study has its strong points and weak points. SC deer populations are down drastically from 10 and 15-20 years ago. I guarantee coyotes are not to blame, but I'm sure I'd get a fight about that from some people. More likely to be other factors like disease, weather and habitat shrinkage.

I'll have to check on NC pops and return with that info. My guess is they're down but I'll bet not as bad as SC, which were very high especially for the acreage.

8.) DParker - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49929]In the fall I'm hoping it's kittens.[/QUOTE]

What do you have against sweater puppies?

9.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

LOL...+5


They keep telling me they're full, but to keep applying.

10.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49928]I wouldn't think farmers have that much of a steak in this.

Okay, maybe chicken farmers...But maybe they should just show more courage.[/QUOTE]

Oh they do, they get a good ribbing about the matter.

11.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

Mostly the farmers just stand around and chew the fat.

12.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

One of my next threads is gonna be "Why do certain animals have ranchers and other animals have farmers?"

So, you have chicken farmers, not chicken ranchers.

You have cattle ranchers, not cattle farmers. (Okay, we have cattle farmers here. You got me.)

Pig farmers, not pig ranchers.

Goat farmer around here. Goat rancher out West?

Emu?


I guess sheep can have have farmers OR ranchers. Especially in some of the lonelier locations. It's a tight market. Amirite? [:wink: :wink: :nudge: :nudge:]

13.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49935]
I guess sheep can have have farmers OR ranchers. Especially in some of the lonelier locations. It's a tight market. Amirite? [:wink: :wink: :nudge: :nudge:][/QUOTE]

-1 :tap:

14.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

I think Emu and Llamas have caretakers. Sounds about right.

15.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49936]-1 :tap:[/QUOTE]

What...Sheep jokes are the new Confederate flag?

You're gonna be very disappointed in Monday's Joke Of The Day, then...LOL

16.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

How do you farm a catfish anyway?

17.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

Do you really keep a bee?

18.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49938]What...Sheep jokes are the new Confederate flag?

You're gonna be very disappointed in Monday's Joke Of The Day, then...LOL[/QUOTE]

Sheep jokes are so...western Kansas.

19.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

Probably a lot more trouble than an oyster farm.

20.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49939]How do you farm a catfish anyway?[/QUOTE]


Probably a lot more trouble than an oyster farm.

21.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49941]Sheep jokes are so...western Kansas.[/QUOTE]

It's that seedy element from Colorado, I'm sure.

22.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49943]Probably a lot more trouble than an oyster farm.[/QUOTE]

So that's where those tiny crackers come from.

23.) bluecat - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49944]It's that seedy element from Colorado, I'm sure.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, out there, sheep skin has a whole different connotation. You don't have to go to school to get one.

24.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

You know why Nebraska grads keep their diplomas on their dashboards?





So they're eligible for Handicapped Parking.

25.) DParker - 07/07/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;49945]So that's where those tiny crackers come from.[/QUOTE]

A tiny cracker...

26.) Swamp Fox - 07/07/2017

LOL...

27.) bluecat - 07/08/2017

+ 5 and shaking my head.

28.) bluecat - 07/08/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49947]You know why Nebraska grads keep their diplomas on their dashboards?





So they're eligible for Handicapped Parking.[/QUOTE]

That is a good one my friend.

29.) luv2bowhunt - 07/10/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49921]What's everyone's local situation as far as populations, control, current thinking of biologists and hunters, etc.?[/QUOTE]

I don't know how you accurately measure the population, but I can tell you what I've noticed. No matter where I put up a game camera I'm going to get coyote pics. Some places I'll get about a 1/1 ratio of pics between coyotes and deer.

On the scientific end they continue to do deer studies here, especially with fawn captures each Spring. The mortality rate is usally 25-40% depending on what part of the state they're in. The suburban areas have a higher survival rate than the big woods. From what I've read over the last couple of years, the big killer of fawns is not coyotes but black bears.

Bears get about 2 for every 1 the yotes get.

Deer population here is anybody's guess. Depends who you listen to and what part of the state. I only know that I'm seeing more deer in the woods this year than I've seen in a couple years. But maybe it's just a coincidence or maybe the stars have just been lining up right for me.

But who really no's all this stuff anyway? :re:

30.) Swamp Fox - 07/10/2017

LOL....

Thanks for posting.

Good point about the bears.

How long would you say you've had coyotes in your area? Does the deer herd in your area have a winter mortality issue? Do hunters there consider coyotes or bears to be unwanted competition?

I might have more questions later on. :wink

31.) luv2bowhunt - 07/10/2017

I started hearing stories about 'coydogs' and coyotes in the mid 80's. They've gone gangbusters here, spreading over the entire state. Hunters consider coyotes the lowest form of vermin and every time they don't see deer on their hunt they blame it on coyotes or the PA Game Comm.

Bears they see more as a trophy game animal. But in reality, they should see bear as the real threat to the deer herd IMO.

Winter mortality can be an issue, depending on how much and what kind of precipitation we get. On years that we get a heavy freezing rain on top of a snowfall, followed by very cold temps, it is devastating. A thick ice layer builds up and deer can't break through.

I've seen blood trails that come down off of the mountains with deer laying all busted up at the bottom of the hill. But those years are not the norm, so winter kills are not that crippling normally. Last year was like we didn't even have a winter. I doubt any healthy deer would have died.


And remember what I always tell everyone at work that says "I hate to ask a stupid question". Questions are inanimate so there are no stupid questions. There are only stupid people that ask questions.

32.) Swamp Fox - 07/10/2017

LOL...

33.) Swamp Fox - 07/10/2017

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;49952]
On the scientific end they continue to do deer studies here, especially with fawn captures each Spring. The mortality rate is usally 25-40% depending on what part of the state they're in. The suburban areas have a higher survival rate than the big woods. From what I've read over the last couple of years, the big killer of fawns is not coyotes but black bears.

Bears get about 2 for every 1 the yotes get.

[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. I was reading something the other day about the bear project going on in Asheville, NC in the western part of the the state. (We have healthy bear populations in the eastern counties and the western counties, but very few in the middle. The ones that central residents see are usually young males passing through during the disbursement period.)

Anyway, bears around Asheville are fairly common and the biologists have figured out that the ones that stay "in town" tend to survive better than the ones that leave the study area. I wonder if urban/suburban bears eat better than other bears (they've weighed some whoppers, and usually the mountain bears aren't as hefty as the eastern bears) and what that would mean for urban/suburban deer.

I can't find the article that discusses that, but if I come across it and it's linkable, I'll post it.

In the meantime, here's some interesting stuff on some of the bear research being done in NC. This concentrates on the urban/suburban study:

[url]https://www.facebook.com/urbanbearstudy/[/url]

[url]http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-civilized-black-bears-of-asheville-north-carolina[/url]

34.) Swamp Fox - 07/10/2017

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;49952]
On the scientific end they continue to do deer studies here, especially with fawn captures each Spring. The mortality rate is usally 25-40% depending on what part of the state they're in. The suburban areas have a higher survival rate than the big woods. From what I've read over the last couple of years, the big killer of fawns is not coyotes but black bears.

Bears get about 2 for every 1 the yotes get.

[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. I was reading something the other day about the bear project going on in Asheville, NC in the western part of the the state. (We have healthy bear populations in the eastern counties and the western counties, but very few in the middle. The ones that central residents see are usually young males passing through during the dispersion period.)

Anyway, bears around Asheville are fairly common and the biologists have figured out that the ones that stay "in town" tend to survive better than the ones that leave the study area. I wonder if urban/suburban bears eat better than other bears (they've weighed some whoppers, and usually the mountain bears aren't as hefty as the eastern bears) and what that would mean for urban/suburban deer.

I can't find the article that discusses that, but if I come across it and it's linkable, I'll post it.

In the meantime, here's some interesting stuff on some of the bear research being done in NC. This concentrates on the urban/suburban study:

[url]https://www.facebook.com/urbanbearstudy/[/url]

[url]http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-civilized-black-bears-of-asheville-north-carolina[/url]

35.) DParker - 07/10/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;49958]I wonder if urban/suburban bears eat better than other bears...[/QUOTE]

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'd hazard a guess that, unless residents and businesses in those areas predominantly use bear-resistant trash cans bears most likely do eat better than their rural brethren. We humans throw away a [I]lot[/I] of food.

36.) Wild Bob - 07/11/2017

Got both...both live and die, some years it's better to be a new born or old deer than other years. :-)