1.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

Cause we've got questions, and you've got answers.

2.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

So...I ordered a 14-16 pound brisket (untrimmed) yesterday from the butcher to smoke for Christmas. I'll pick it up on the 21st in plenty of time to rub it up and park it in the refrigerator for a few days. Did this several years ago and it turned out great. Hoping to up my game and learn a little bit in the process. I want this brisket to be "over the top".

3.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

My first question is when you are smoking a brisket, do you turn the meat over during the process?

My notes (probably from DP or billy) say that there is a flat side and a point side (fat side).

4.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

Here's an interesting article I found on the topic

[url]http://bbq.about.com/od/brisket/a/aa060207a.htm[/url]

5.) Swamp Fox - 11/29/2016

[QUOTE=bluecat;45630]So...I ordered a 14-16 pound brisket (untrimmed) yesterday from the butcher to smoke for Christmas. I'll pick it up on the 21st in plenty of time to rub it up and park it in the refrigerator for a few days. Did this several years ago and it turned out great. Hoping to up my game and learn a little bit in the process. I want this brisket to be "over the top".[/QUOTE]


"If you rub it for more than two days, you're just playin' with it..."

6.) Swamp Fox - 11/29/2016

[QUOTE=bluecat;45631]My first question is when you are smoking a brisket, do you turn the meat over during the process?

My notes (probably from DP or billy) say that there is a flat side and a point side (fat side).[/QUOTE]


Are you cooking over direct heat or indirect? I always thought you boys were always doing everything indirectly. In the article it seems to at least imply direct heat.

7.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;45641]Are you cooking over direct heat or indirect? I always thought you boys were always doing everything indirectly. In the article it seems to at least imply direct heat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, just using the article as a reference. Always indirect heat with an offset firebox.

8.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

I see what you are saying, maybe the flipping thing is of no consequence because of the indirect heat.

9.) DParker - 11/29/2016

My vast experience with indirect heat smoking (what is it, 2.5 months now?) says no meat turning is needed.

10.) Swamp Fox - 11/29/2016

Before I begin, let's get this out of the way:

"Miss Scarlett, I regret to inform you that I am untrained in the field of obstetrics, and know almost nothing about brisket, either."


*****


I can see rotating the meat to turn one side away from the firebox or pile of coals, but the only time I can see flipping being ultra helpful is if you had the meat over a water pan. When I've arranged things like that, the down-side of the meat (the side directly above the water pan) is noticeably slower to cook. Not that it remains raw, LOL, just that it's not as far along as the other side. Same with the side away from the indirect heat sometimes if I'm careless about fire management.


So for offset cooking (of a brisket, anyway) my first inclination would be fatty side up, no flipping but some rotation. I think for other kinds of meat, all bets are off.


******

I realize we don't have any (?) whole hog guys on here, for instance, but I'd love to know what the percentage is of pitmasters who flip and those who don't, and how their fire technique affects the decision.

11.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

That all makes sense now. I think you are both on to something. Most of this "instructions" have the heat right below the brisket.

So with all that being said, why not trim off the point side and put rub on that side too. Plenty of fat marbled in the meat right?


I'm all cornfused. What to do, what to do.

12.) bluecat - 11/29/2016

Here's a pretty good reference on trimming away the fat and such.

They say it doesn't matter if you have fat side up or down.

And since it is trimmed I'm guessing it wouldn't.

[url]http://www.patiopitmasters.com/brisket.html[/url]

13.) DParker - 11/29/2016

[QUOTE=bluecat;45654]I think you are both on something.[/quote]

FIFY

[QUOTE=bluecat;45654]So with all that being said, why not trim off the point side and put rub on that side too. Plenty of fat marbled in the meat right?[/QUOTE]

That's what I did. More specifically, I separated the flat and point and trimmed as much of the excess fat off as I could (or at least, all but a couple millimeters of it here and there) and hit every square inch with rub. Besides, having the flat and point separated also increases the surface area / volume ratio, helping speed up the cooking time.

14.) Swamp Fox - 11/29/2016

[QUOTE=DParker;45657]FIFY

[/QUOTE]




LOL...

15.) DParker - 01/22/2017

Game day!



More to come...

16.) DParker - 01/22/2017

Chicken hearts and duck gizzards, cleaned and waiting to be breaded and deep-fried.

17.) crookedeye - 01/22/2017

you keep opening that door on the smoker that brisket will never get done in time...

18.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2017

[QUOTE=DParker;46777]Chicken hearts and duck gizzards, cleaned and waiting to be breaded and deep-fried.

[/QUOTE]


Well, THAT was unexpected...LOL

19.) DParker - 01/22/2017

[QUOTE=crookedeye;46779]you keep opening that door on the smoker that brisket will never get done in time...[/QUOTE]

That's OK, I'm doing pork ribs. And that pic was from when I put them in, so I kinda' had to open the door.

20.) DParker - 01/22/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46780]Well, THAT was unexpected...LOL[/QUOTE]

I call this course the Spanish Inquisition.

21.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2017

CE, I'm thinking about smoking some pierogi sometime if I can find some good ones. Kinda like your smoked mac n cheese. I need to find some better pierogi, though. They seem to think skimpy ones that are way too expensive are what everyone wants at the local grocery store. I found a butcher shop that has them for some reason, though. That's my next stop. I'm hoping they're a step up.

22.) crookedeye - 01/22/2017

i use bob evans mac and cheese from walmart..add a few things...like more cheese.. my last hunt back in the end of december my buddys where patting me on the back, saying i was the next emerial laszana..my spring turkey hunt i'll make up a batch of my smoked bakebeans..

23.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2017

Does that mean everyone gets to smell the smoke twice?

24.) DParker - 01/22/2017

The hearts and gizzards, fried crunchy...and the oven roast asparagus w/parmesan chees that my son made.



Lamb fries in panko breadcrumbs and what's left of the wings.

25.) Swamp Fox - 01/22/2017

I want to know, but I'm afraid to ask: :p

Why are the lamb fries flat?


:pop:

26.) DParker - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46793]I want to know, but I'm afraid to ask: :p

Why are the lamb fries flat?


:pop:[/QUOTE]

Well, there were really only two possibilities...both of which probably make you want to curl up in the fetal position:

1. They were pounded flat with a hammer.
2. They were cut into 1/4" slices.

In this case it was the latter. The breadcrumbs ended up being a good choice, as they added a little crunch . Surprisingly, the only real disappointment was the ribs. The smoking went well, but they were poor quality ribs. Lots of cartilage and tough parts.

27.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

I was afraid of the hammer bit...Crossed my legs, even.


Do duck gizzards taste much different from chicken gizzards?

28.) DParker - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46802]I was afraid of the hammer bit...Crossed my legs, even.


Do duck gizzards taste much different from chicken gizzards?[/QUOTE]

The taste is pretty similar, though they were a bit chewier than chicken gizzards.

29.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

Good to know. I'm not very fond of duck, but I can eat a chicken gizzard or two.

Chicken livers not so much. That's what I call "bait."

30.) bluecat - 01/23/2017

Looks fantastic DP. I would never be able to pull that off at home. What did you use to get batter to stick to your (balls, gizzards, wings)? I'm always curious about this.

31.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

Several different ways to do breading/coating, depending on how light or how heavy you like it.

It's pretty goof-proof if you use eggs and milk, although you don't really need the eggs, or the milk. But what I like is two eggs beaten with 1/4 cup milk (you can use more or less) per-- say-- two fish or chicken breast meals. Usually I can eat two "meals" on my own at one sitting, so I would increase this if I were cooking for others.

You can dip once, or twice for a thicker coating. That is, dunk in the eggs/milk, dredge or shake in coating (flour, cornmeal, Panko, a mix, or whatever) for a light breading, or repeat the dunk- and-dredge for a heartier version.

32.) DParker - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46804]Good to know. I'm not very fond of duck...[/quote]

Really? A properly roasted duck is heaven on a plate.

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46804]Chicken livers not so much. That's what I call "bait."[/QUOTE]

Fried chicken livers are delicious. Almost as good as squirrel livers.

[QUOTE=bluecat;46805]Looks fantastic DP. I would never be able to pull that off at home. What did you use to get batter to [B]stick to your (balls[/B], gizzards, wings)? [B]I'm always curious about this[/B].[/QUOTE]

OK, that's such a slow pitch I'm not even going to swing at it. And swampy covered it pretty well here...

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;46809]Several different ways to do breading/coating, depending on how light or how heavy you like it.

It's pretty goof-proof if you use eggs and milk, although you don't really need the eggs, or the milk. But what I like is two eggs to 1/4 cup milk (you can use more or less) per-- say-- two fish or chicken breast meals. Usually I can eat two "meals" on my own at one sitting, so I would increase this if I were cooking for others.

You can dip once, or twice for a thicker coating. That is, dunk in the eggs/milk, dredge or shake in coating (flour, cornmeal, Panko, a mix, or whatever) for a light breading, or repeat the dunk- and-dredge for a heartier version.[/QUOTE]

I used a simply thin coating of seasoned flour for the hearts and gizzards. For the lamb fries I dipped them in 2 beaten eggs and then put them in the panko crumbs. If I wasn't in such a hurry...and so tired of cooking already...by that point I also would have dredged them in flour before the egg dip, as that helps the egg to adhere better. But I was getting wiped out and was cutting corners just to get it over with.

33.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

I might try that idea of dredging in flour before the egg dip. It might be an improvement on a problem I don't have, but you never know until you try, right?

Also might be a compromise position between the thickness of one dunk-and-dredge and two. Some stuff doesn't need two passes and the thick breading that comes with it, but could use more than one.

34.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

As far as duck goes, it depends on the duck, and then on the cook.

It's a rare thing for me when the two come together in a positive manner, LOL

Chicken livers? My experience says "No" (but not "Hell, no!") but maybe this is inspiration to try something different from the past. Maybe I'll marinate them in something first. I've never done them myself, just had them out here and there.

35.) DParker - 01/23/2017

My preference with chicken/squirrel livers is to just dredge them in seasoned flour and then sauté in butter until golden rather than deep frying.

36.) Swamp Fox - 01/23/2017

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd want to contaminate several cups of perfectly good oil with liver...LOL

37.) billy b - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=DParker;46794]Well, there were really only two possibilities...both of which probably make you want to curl up in the fetal position:

1. They were pounded flat with a hammer.
2. They were cut into 1/4" slices.

In this case it was the latter. The breadcrumbs ended up being a good choice, as they added a little crunch . Surprisingly, the only real disappointment was the ribs. The smoking went well, but they were poor quality ribs. Lots of cartilage and tough parts.[/QUOTE]

DParker, buy only loinback ribs, no fat, no cartilage or bone chips plus more meat.

38.) DParker - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=billy b;46820]DParker, buy only loinback ribs, no fat, no cartilage or bone chips plus more meat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, lesson learned. These were full spare ribs...my mistake. The previous two, which were much better, were a St. Louis-cut rack and a rack of baby backs.

39.) bluecat - 01/23/2017

I made some oven-roasted chicken the other night that used yogurt as the substance that the breadcrumbs adhere to. It wasn't too bad. I generally resort to the milk, egg wash. I'll add a little cornstarch to the flour to make it adhere a little better.

Okay, what is a loinback rib? Is that a closer cut to the loin?

40.) DParker - 01/23/2017

[QUOTE=bluecat;46823]Okay, what is a loinback rib? Is that a closer cut to the loin?[/QUOTE]

After reading Billy's feedback I took a little jog over to Wikipedia, where I found a pretty decent, albeit short, write-up on the subject: [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_ribs"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_ribs[/URL]

41.) bluecat - 01/25/2017

Thanks, I'd never heard the term loinback before, but I'm guessing it's just another way to say "baby back", or "back ribs" or "loin ribs".

42.) billy b - 01/25/2017

The loin back is the top cut at the spine, considerably more loin meat than the lower cut baby back, around here they are the same price as a baby back, the spare rib and the St Louis are the same cut but most of the gristle has been trimmed from the St Louis. My go to rub for ribs is Chubacabra, the best on ribs I have ever used. You can buy it on line but I can get it around here in some stores. It has a little heat so don't cake it on too much, heat smoker to 225*, remove the membrane and add rub on both sides, cook for 3 hours and remove from smoker and wrap with foil (each rack separately) then but back in smoker, cook for two more hours and remove the foil, return to smoker and cook one more hour then remove and eat, be careful removing because they will fall apart easily. Some people will add honey and brown sugar when they wrap them in foil but I like it better just plain but you night try doing it on 1 rack to see how you like it. If you don't have a smoker you can do the same procedure in the oven, just brush lightly with liquid smoke before cooking then add rub. When I cook ribs I cook several racks at once, after I remove the membrane I cut the rack in half and gook half racks, it's normally just Barbara and I and a half rack is all we need foe a meal, I then vacuum seal the other half racks and freeze, sealed properly they will last a long time in the freezer. I wait till someone puts loin ribs on sale which around here is $1.59 to $1.79 per pound, I buy 8 or 10 racks and freeze the ones I don't cook, that when I wane ribs a simple nuke job in the microwave is all I have to do, they taste just like they just came out of the smoker.

43.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2017

Hey, Billy: How much liquid smoke do you consider a light brush? A few drops in a pot is plenty of smoke for a stew or something similar, so what would be the procedure for this?

44.) billy b - 01/25/2017

It is powerful, I would cut it to 2 drops with 2 or 3 oz water with water. Never dealt with lq. smoke
very much.

45.) Swamp Fox - 01/25/2017

:tu: