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1.) Jon - 08/25/2015
The man who put my food plots in yesterday has hundreds of clients, mostly large farms on the Eastern Shore of Md where BIG money and some big deer are. He told me that 99% of his clients who have private farms and hunt big deer have thrown away their spin feeders and all have installed trough feeders. He claims that big bucks will openly feed at a trough but rarely feed at a feeder unless it's been there for many years where deer aren't killed over it or near it.
I know I've seen many trough feeders on large ranches where bucks feed in these things but does it take a long time for them to get acclimated?
I have been getting allot of bucks on my trail cams but very few "AT" the feeder. They do gather around it and by it but never actually at the feeder.
[URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/jonnybow/media/Screenshot_2015-08-25-05-30-18-1.png.html]
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I know I've seen many trough feeders on large ranches where bucks feed in these things but does it take a long time for them to get acclimated?
I have been getting allot of bucks on my trail cams but very few "AT" the feeder. They do gather around it and by it but never actually at the feeder.
[URL=http://s93.photobucket.com/user/jonnybow/media/Screenshot_2015-08-25-05-30-18-1.png.html]
[/URL]2.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
As I said in earlier in the other thread, I have a good percentage of my bucks-at-feeders pictures showing the bucks right at the feeder...I don't have a lot of wide-angle pictures like yours above, so I can't say who is or who isn't hanging back off-camera. Also, I tend not to hunt my feeders. I may or may not even spend much time in the general area.
I don't doubt there are different experiences for hunted feeders vs. non-hunted feeders. I'd even go so far as to stay that just one deer killed at a feeder may queer the spot for hunting over for a LOoooNG time, based on limited personal experience.
I'll bet your pictures change as 1) the standing corn gets eaten/cut and eaten and the bucks become hungrier for carbs and 2) the bucks become even more acclimated to the feeder.
I have never used or been around trough feeders, but I do know there are some that are timed, and that some people feel there are advantages to them. I just don't know why there'd be a huge advantage for bucks in terms of comfort level vs. a spinner, all else being equal.
3.) Hunter - 08/25/2015
Jon, we use trough feeders for our protein pellets. We have them all over the ranch and the deer hammer them. They only use them at night mostly even though we don't hunt over them. I doubt that it would take any time at all for them to acclimate to them. Of course, you will be feeding everyone else in the woods also...turkeys, porcupines, coons, etc. :bang: we also have made wire basket rings where we feed cotton seed, also high in protein. Deer love that also but took a while for them to get used to it but when they did, they hammer it also.
What are feeding in your feeder?
In the pic, trough feeder in foreground and cotton seed in background. (Nothing else eats cotton seed!:tu:)
What are feeding in your feeder?
In the pic, trough feeder in foreground and cotton seed in background. (Nothing else eats cotton seed!:tu:)
4.) Jon - 08/25/2015
I was hoping you would chime in.....
I'm currently spinning corn mixed with a protein pellet. My concern isn't with the amount of feed the deer get since I live in a agricultural area with nothing but farms as far as you can see. My biggest concern is to get deer to come through my property during the daylight. I guess I'm looking for a food source that deer will attract to and be drawn from other areas without concern of danger. I won't be hunting over or around this feeder, just trying to bring them in.
Cotton seed sounds like a champ except we have no cotton down here so the deer wouldn't know what it tastes like and I'm certain they'd leave it alone.
I'm currently spinning corn mixed with a protein pellet. My concern isn't with the amount of feed the deer get since I live in a agricultural area with nothing but farms as far as you can see. My biggest concern is to get deer to come through my property during the daylight. I guess I'm looking for a food source that deer will attract to and be drawn from other areas without concern of danger. I won't be hunting over or around this feeder, just trying to bring them in.
Cotton seed sounds like a champ except we have no cotton down here so the deer wouldn't know what it tastes like and I'm certain they'd leave it alone.
5.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
I know (or I've heard, anyway) there's a special moisture-resistant protein pellet guys use in spinners; otherwise they prefer gravity feeders and troughs to keep the stuff off the ground. I think a spinner will work for what you want, though, given enough time and a secluded, no-pressure location. Is there a magic feed that might translate into more daylight visits during the fall? Crack or deernip maybe...I'd be interested if anyone has some ideas.
The feeders (corn) that get daylight buck pics for me are the ones I stay almost completely away from, and all feeders see a significant increase in traffic during the "on their feet" portion of the rut. Other than that, I haven't been able to manipulate feeding times or even feeder locations so that there's better than average daylight activity.
The bucks do what they want to do and don't take my hopes and dreams into consideration, is what I'm trying to say, LOL.
The feeders (corn) that get daylight buck pics for me are the ones I stay almost completely away from, and all feeders see a significant increase in traffic during the "on their feet" portion of the rut. Other than that, I haven't been able to manipulate feeding times or even feeder locations so that there's better than average daylight activity.
The bucks do what they want to do and don't take my hopes and dreams into consideration, is what I'm trying to say, LOL.
6.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
Hunter, can you show me some pics of what you are feeding cotton seed out of? Also, do they use it to any great extent in the fall? I would think it would tail off a bit, but would be interested in how much.
7.) luv2bowhunt - 08/25/2015
[QUOTE=Jon;34137] I guess I'm looking for a food source that deer will attract to and be drawn from other areas without concern of danger. I won't be hunting over or around this feeder, just trying to bring them in.[/QUOTE]
Not to change the subject but I'm just wondering. I have no idea how big your land is but wouldn't creating a bedding or sanctuary area do a better job of keeping deer around than feeders? I guess if you only have a couple acres it may not be big enough, but I would think making doe bedding areas would be what I really want to bowhunt around.
Not to change the subject but I'm just wondering. I have no idea how big your land is but wouldn't creating a bedding or sanctuary area do a better job of keeping deer around than feeders? I guess if you only have a couple acres it may not be big enough, but I would think making doe bedding areas would be what I really want to bowhunt around.
8.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
Okay, I see it a little better from a pic in your album. Is that chicken wire with a stake holding it together? Deer feed through the wire? How do you secure it so critters don't knock it over?
How does the seed handle being exposed to the elements?
How does the seed handle being exposed to the elements?
9.) Hunter - 08/25/2015
Our baskets are made with v-mesh wire. We drive a t-post into the ground and set the basket over it. The post keeps it upright. Each basket holds about 150lbs of cottonseed.
Cotton seed is unaffected by rain, another plus. We start feeding it right at the end of hunting season to help bucks recover from rut. We also feed in summer to help does with milk production and bucks with their horn growth.
Jon, I would think a trough of protein pellets might be a good bet for you. Not only are they a good source of protein, they are a great delivery system for wormer and any medicine needed. The deer really seem to prefer eating from a trough. I would think the strong aroma from the trough helps attract them.
Our deer never seem to tail off eating protein even when their is a lot of natural forage. They aren't near as eager to go to corn when there is a lot of forage. We cut off protein during hunting season and only run corn feeders.
Cotton seed is unaffected by rain, another plus. We start feeding it right at the end of hunting season to help bucks recover from rut. We also feed in summer to help does with milk production and bucks with their horn growth.
Jon, I would think a trough of protein pellets might be a good bet for you. Not only are they a good source of protein, they are a great delivery system for wormer and any medicine needed. The deer really seem to prefer eating from a trough. I would think the strong aroma from the trough helps attract them.
Our deer never seem to tail off eating protein even when their is a lot of natural forage. They aren't near as eager to go to corn when there is a lot of forage. We cut off protein during hunting season and only run corn feeders.
10.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
Thanks!
11.) Wild Bob - 08/25/2015
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;34142]Not to change the subject but I'm just wondering. I have no idea how big your land is but wouldn't creating a bedding or sanctuary area do a better job of keeping deer around than feeders? I guess if you only have a couple acres it may not be big enough, but I would think making doe bedding areas would be what I really want to bowhunt around.[/QUOTE]
I have to chime in here on Gerry's point: I've got to comment that I'm a big believer in creating sanctuary and then staying out of it. Before I moved north, when we owned our farm in Tennessee, I had an area on my place that we kept out of and it was designated as sanctuary area. The bedding/sanctuary area was almost smack dab in the middle of my farm and it was approximately 30 acres in size. About the only time I ever set foot in that bedding area was in late winter to take a quick look around and see if there were any antler sheds in there...other than that, I stayed out all the rest of the year. I only had three small food plots around the perimeter of the bedding area and about half a dozen stands strategically placed to work with the terrain and cover surrounding that sanctuary.
Every year it was the same story from properties around me; hit or miss on the reports of deer being seem on their properties. But I always had deer very consistently.
One additional thing I did that always seemed to serve me well was this; one of those food plots I hardly ever hunted most years. I had a nice stand set up along it, but I always held out hitting it up except during the last couple of weeks during the season...the only reason I used it then was if it had been a tough season for what ever reason (weather, lack of time, hunter error!?). I didn't keep records for the years I hunted the property in that manner (it was well over 10 years) but I can honestly say that when I did utilize that least used stand along the food plot, it just about always delivered for me (as far as putting meat in the freezer) as well as providing a couple of dandy bucks as well. Also, the two biggest bucks I ever killed on that property I killed as they were going towards or exiting that sanctuary area.
I have to chime in here on Gerry's point: I've got to comment that I'm a big believer in creating sanctuary and then staying out of it. Before I moved north, when we owned our farm in Tennessee, I had an area on my place that we kept out of and it was designated as sanctuary area. The bedding/sanctuary area was almost smack dab in the middle of my farm and it was approximately 30 acres in size. About the only time I ever set foot in that bedding area was in late winter to take a quick look around and see if there were any antler sheds in there...other than that, I stayed out all the rest of the year. I only had three small food plots around the perimeter of the bedding area and about half a dozen stands strategically placed to work with the terrain and cover surrounding that sanctuary.
Every year it was the same story from properties around me; hit or miss on the reports of deer being seem on their properties. But I always had deer very consistently.
One additional thing I did that always seemed to serve me well was this; one of those food plots I hardly ever hunted most years. I had a nice stand set up along it, but I always held out hitting it up except during the last couple of weeks during the season...the only reason I used it then was if it had been a tough season for what ever reason (weather, lack of time, hunter error!?). I didn't keep records for the years I hunted the property in that manner (it was well over 10 years) but I can honestly say that when I did utilize that least used stand along the food plot, it just about always delivered for me (as far as putting meat in the freezer) as well as providing a couple of dandy bucks as well. Also, the two biggest bucks I ever killed on that property I killed as they were going towards or exiting that sanctuary area.
12.) Swamp Fox - 08/25/2015
The old "Hunt from the outside in" strategery...:tu:
Put that on top of Luv2's Saturation Scouting technique, and you have a wallhanger almost every year....:wink
Put that on top of Luv2's Saturation Scouting technique, and you have a wallhanger almost every year....:wink
13.) billy b - 08/25/2015
I wish I could give you advice about your area Jon but I'm in Texas, we feed protein out of drum feeders with three spouts, we also feed corn thru a spinner, also known as a dinner bell, you know how it works. I'm sure the deer on your land in Delaware are different than here as we don't have as much browse. When we got the current lease it had never been fed at all, an outfitter had it & he wouldn't spend the money for feed, he mostly still hunted & drove high rack vehicles over it. It took a couple of years for the deer to accept corn & protein feeders, but after all these years they will be staged at corn feeders before it goes off. After velvet is gone we stop feeding protein & turn up the corn, then after the rut we bring back what you end up doing the protein & they really guzzle it. It took a few years for the racks to get bigger but when they did it was amazing. I'm looking forward to see what you are going to do & watch the deer grow, I know you will figure out the best thing for your place.
14.) Hunter - 08/26/2015
Jon, just s thought, any water near by? If not, water trough might be effective
15.) Ohbuckhunter - 08/26/2015
I run both trough and spinner feeders. My spin feeders have been out for more than 5 years and I try to always have corn in them. I hardly ever get mature bucks at the feeder during daylight hours after oct 1st. Maybe 6 times throughout the season. But I use my feeders to take inventory on what's on the farm and try to figured out where there coming from.
Trough feeders I have better luck with daylight pics of deer but I will say it's not the golden ticket. I go through 4 times as much feed in them and doesn't do much good besides keeping the deer around.
I have 10 times better luck hunting over food plots early and late season. Keep mineral licks out from February-October. Back to the food plots. I have allot better odds seeing a mature buck in my kill plots and not my big plots. Looks like your doing allot of things to better your land and everything you do will make it better.
Going back a few post about sanctuaries. When our land got logged I had to relearn the land. But when they left tree tops all over made 1 section of our land a gold mine. Ill follow up with pics shortly.
Trough feeders I have better luck with daylight pics of deer but I will say it's not the golden ticket. I go through 4 times as much feed in them and doesn't do much good besides keeping the deer around.
I have 10 times better luck hunting over food plots early and late season. Keep mineral licks out from February-October. Back to the food plots. I have allot better odds seeing a mature buck in my kill plots and not my big plots. Looks like your doing allot of things to better your land and everything you do will make it better.
Going back a few post about sanctuaries. When our land got logged I had to relearn the land. But when they left tree tops all over made 1 section of our land a gold mine. Ill follow up with pics shortly.
16.) luv2bowhunt - 08/26/2015
[QUOTE=Ohbuckhunter;34157] But when they left tree tops all over made 1 section of our land a gold mine.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I'm helping my son-in-law make his property better right now and the first thing we did was cut trees, lots of them. As soon as we did that the brush came up and his 30 acres is becoming one big bedding area.
His land is completely surrounded by orchards and farm land, so we decided the best thing to do was make his area a bedding area. I believe this will work better than having a food plot or feeders, since the deer don't really need more food to choose from.
Exactly. I'm helping my son-in-law make his property better right now and the first thing we did was cut trees, lots of them. As soon as we did that the brush came up and his 30 acres is becoming one big bedding area.
His land is completely surrounded by orchards and farm land, so we decided the best thing to do was make his area a bedding area. I believe this will work better than having a food plot or feeders, since the deer don't really need more food to choose from.
17.) Jon - 08/26/2015
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;34142]Not to change the subject but I'm just wondering. I have no idea how big your land is but wouldn't creating a bedding or sanctuary area do a better job of keeping deer around than feeders? I guess if you only have a couple acres it may not be big enough, but I would think making doe bedding areas would be what I really want to bowhunt around.[/QUOTE]
Not sure how to "make" a doe bedding area, can you explain. Also, I've always stayed well away from bedding areas on our farms to give them a sanctuary. I've never hunted a bedding area for fear of goobering them up.
My property is only 18 acres.
Not sure how to "make" a doe bedding area, can you explain. Also, I've always stayed well away from bedding areas on our farms to give them a sanctuary. I've never hunted a bedding area for fear of goobering them up.
My property is only 18 acres.
18.) Jon - 08/26/2015
[QUOTE=Hunter;34154]Jon, just s thought, any water near by? If not, water trough might be effective[/QUOTE]
I also thought about a water trough. The ditches that surround the property are filled with water, mostly standing but as it gets wetter, the ditches fill up and actually flow like a stream. I'm going to watch them and see if the deer go there to drink, if they don't I will try a water trough.
I also thought about a water trough. The ditches that surround the property are filled with water, mostly standing but as it gets wetter, the ditches fill up and actually flow like a stream. I'm going to watch them and see if the deer go there to drink, if they don't I will try a water trough.
19.) luv2bowhunt - 08/26/2015
[QUOTE=Jon;34162]Not sure how to "make" a doe bedding area, can you explain. Also, I've always stayed well away from bedding areas on our farms to give them a sanctuary. I've never hunted a bedding area for fear of goobering them up.
My property is only 18 acres.[/QUOTE]
Around here it's not that tough. Any south facing slope will do. Log it off, leave the tops, plant pines along the northwest edges. Make it thick and they will come. Hunt on the edges of these areas, not in the middle of it.
I have killed most of my bucks in these kind of places during the rut, looking for does. Bucks will bed in these areas too, especially here where they get a lot of pressure.
My property is only 18 acres.[/QUOTE]
Around here it's not that tough. Any south facing slope will do. Log it off, leave the tops, plant pines along the northwest edges. Make it thick and they will come. Hunt on the edges of these areas, not in the middle of it.
I have killed most of my bucks in these kind of places during the rut, looking for does. Bucks will bed in these areas too, especially here where they get a lot of pressure.
20.) Jon - 08/26/2015
OK, lets review...... I live in Delaware, mean altitude above sea level is 8'. South facing slopes don't exist, how about a south facing flat spot?
Any other great ideas from Pa? Goober king
Any other great ideas from Pa? Goober king
21.) Swamp Fox - 08/26/2015
LOL....
He's been in the "mountains" too long...:p
This may be what Luv2 is talking about when he says "leave the tops", but look up "hinge-cutting" and you'll find a relatively easy technique for areas too small or difficult to log, and one you can do yourself if you want. It involves cutting the tree just to the point of falling over, with a large percentage of them maintaining contact with the root system so they don't die...the trees are hinged, not cut all the way through. If you have a mix of tree sizes and enough of them, you can even cut so as to create a "roofed" area.
Hinge-cutting is also used to block undesirable trails and create funnels.
In truly "logged" areas ("cutovers"), I would remove or burn logging trash and laps in areas I might need to bushhog or cut shooting lanes into later. Around here, a logged area that you can't maintain like that can become unhuntable within three years. It just grows up so thick and fast. It's great bedding, but sometimes hunting only the edges isn't feasible or desired. And my suspicion is that some of the really nasty, thickest cutovers are too thick even for deer in normal circumstances, and they just travel the edges anyway while you're stuck with a big thicket that you can't do anything else with.
He's been in the "mountains" too long...:p
This may be what Luv2 is talking about when he says "leave the tops", but look up "hinge-cutting" and you'll find a relatively easy technique for areas too small or difficult to log, and one you can do yourself if you want. It involves cutting the tree just to the point of falling over, with a large percentage of them maintaining contact with the root system so they don't die...the trees are hinged, not cut all the way through. If you have a mix of tree sizes and enough of them, you can even cut so as to create a "roofed" area.
Hinge-cutting is also used to block undesirable trails and create funnels.
In truly "logged" areas ("cutovers"), I would remove or burn logging trash and laps in areas I might need to bushhog or cut shooting lanes into later. Around here, a logged area that you can't maintain like that can become unhuntable within three years. It just grows up so thick and fast. It's great bedding, but sometimes hunting only the edges isn't feasible or desired. And my suspicion is that some of the really nasty, thickest cutovers are too thick even for deer in normal circumstances, and they just travel the edges anyway while you're stuck with a big thicket that you can't do anything else with.
22.) luv2bowhunt - 08/26/2015
[QUOTE=Jon;34171]OK, lets review...... I live in Delaware, mean altitude above sea level is 8'. South facing slopes don't exist, how about a south facing flat spot?
Any other great ideas from Pa? Goober king[/QUOTE]
And yet you know so much about wounded deer running uphill....fascinating.:grin:
That's why I said 'around here'. Anyway, if you make a spot thick in Delaware, I'm sure the deer will come. Obviously you don't want 'impenetrable' but thick enough to encourage bedding. Not sure why I even posted on here anyway, I will stay out of it and make everyone happy.
:co:
Any other great ideas from Pa? Goober king[/QUOTE]
And yet you know so much about wounded deer running uphill....fascinating.:grin:
That's why I said 'around here'. Anyway, if you make a spot thick in Delaware, I'm sure the deer will come. Obviously you don't want 'impenetrable' but thick enough to encourage bedding. Not sure why I even posted on here anyway, I will stay out of it and make everyone happy.
:co:
23.) Jon - 08/26/2015
The problem is that you can't "stay out of it" which makes you a glutton for our constant punishment...... I thought that a self proclaimed non goober would have figured that out by now. Don't you have a photo shoot to model for??
24.) Swamp Fox - 08/26/2015
:pop:
LOL is all I've got to say.
LOL is all I've got to say.
25.) Wild Bob - 08/26/2015
As far as creating bedding areas; IMHO regardless of how or where you choose to create that area - the most important criteria is that you promote new ground cover growth (let the sunlight in to the ground level). The ultimate idea is to have thick cover well below the existing canopy of the remaining woods, i.e. shrubbery and saplings that are growing from ground level up to the 6-8ft range.
Depending on vegetation growth rates in your area, if you want to keep that area functioning indefinitely as a thick sanctuary area, you'll need to occasionally tend to it. There were several times over the years when I did as Swampy mentioned (hinge-cutting) just to control the taller growing trees in my sanctuary area. When those taller trees get up above the surrounding lower thick brush, you'll start to notice the cycle of forest growth and the shade starts to thin out thick shrubby growth and eventually the understory will begin to open back up.
Depending on vegetation growth rates in your area, if you want to keep that area functioning indefinitely as a thick sanctuary area, you'll need to occasionally tend to it. There were several times over the years when I did as Swampy mentioned (hinge-cutting) just to control the taller growing trees in my sanctuary area. When those taller trees get up above the surrounding lower thick brush, you'll start to notice the cycle of forest growth and the shade starts to thin out thick shrubby growth and eventually the understory will begin to open back up.