1.) luv2bowhunt - 12/29/2014

Here's an interesting study on 3 PA bucks from last year. All the deer in these studies live on State Forest land. You can browse through all the on-going studies on this site. Pretty much the only good thing coming out of Penn State these days. :wink

[url]http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer/news/2014/vampire-bucks...not-hardly[/url]


Also check out the study on this doe. Fascinating that she didn't start her hiding behavior until the day before the rifle season. Wow, how do they know? Are we that obvious?

[url]http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer/news/2014/discerning-doe[/url]

2.) Wild Bob - 12/29/2014

Interesting study.

3.) bluecat - 12/29/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;28053]Pretty much the only good thing coming out of Penn State these days. :wink

[/QUOTE]

You won the Pinstripe bowl.

4.) Swamp Fox - 12/29/2014

Do I have it right that the Pa. rifle season is two weeks starting the Monday after Thanksgiving? Is any part of the rut going on at that point, or is there much of a trickle rut about to pop in early-to-mid December?

How would you rate bowhunting pressure in this area? How about in your area, just for curiosity's sake? Say, on a scale of 1-10.

I've long felt that "going nocturnal" was an over-used excuse, but it is a fact of life in some areas and certainly for some bucks, no doubt. I think what I've learned over the years is that when you think the bucks (or deer) have "gone nocturnal " you might be right, and so then the trick is to find those that have not done so---because there are some of them out there (and you might even be able to find them on purpose), and/or to put yourself in the woods as much and for as long as you can during the brief period that all bucks--including vampires-- are most likely to be visible. Very roughly speaking, that's mid-October thru the first week of December here, with the hottest period being something like the last week of October through the second week in November.

I'd love to see more of these kinds of studies from other areas of the country. :tu:


At this point on this forum, I'd even settle for anecdotal evidence...:wink

:ach:

5.) luv2bowhunt - 12/29/2014

Good grief man, are you on a double dose of 5 hour energy? So many questions/comments in such a short paragraph.

Well lets see.

You are right on the rifle season date.
We are usually in post-rut right after Thanksgiving. Very common to hear of guys seeing some chasing the second week of Dec. though, which makes sense (28 days after the initial rut).
Bowhunting pressure in these State Forests is very light. Easy to get by yourself on these ridges. Not many bow hunters do the hike and climb. In the area of the study I know about, I would rate the pressure a 2. In my State Forest, about a 3. Rifle season, a completely different story. They spread out and cover a lot of country, plus every ridge sees a drive or two.

I haven't seen a buck in this study yet, that didn't move at some point during the day. The question in these areas is what kind of cover are you dealing with. I'd bet a weeks pay, that when the pressure is on you'd see that these 'safe areas' are thick mountain laurel or dense clearcut.

This will be an ongoing study, more to come next Fall regarding what happened with these deer this year.

6.) Swamp Fox - 12/29/2014

LOL...I've been cooped up for a few days....:bang::wink

7.) Swamp Fox - 12/29/2014

I think one mistake I keep making is staying with a group of does and counting on them to lure a buck. More often than not, I'm with does I found in Sept and October that are feeding on an obvious food source like acorns. Some years, everything works out right. When it doesn't, I'm slow to go find does that are hanging out in another area that is closer to thick cover or "uncharted territory."

When I think the bucks are nocturnal, I need someone to remind me to hunt thicker cover (or closer to it) and/or places no one has been all season. I don't know why I'm so slow to make the move some years. Too emotionally invested in certain established stands, I suppose, is part of it .

I look at my trail cam pics from these "secondary" areas and I kick myself when I see the daytime buck movement going on while I was elsewhere.

8.) luv2bowhunt - 12/29/2014

Yeah I hear you. Even in this study, the bucks still moved at some point during the day. The key was to be where they were hiding. Problem was they arrived in their 'safe spot' before sunrise. But then again the study is in rifle season, not bow season.

[url]http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer/news/2014/those-cunning-bucks[/url]

9.) Swamp Fox - 12/29/2014

That's one reason I asked about hunting pressure. By the time the Monday after Thanksgiving arrives, deer here have been hunted and hounded (pun intended) for 2.5 to 3.5 months...If any deer are liable to go or be nocturnal, we've got 'em! LOL

10.) Deerminator - 12/30/2014

Another thing to keep in mind is sunrise and sun set keep changing as the season progresses. I've found that the deer I see at 7-8:00 in the evening at the end of summer still come out at 7-8:00 durring the fall. So the only thing that changed was the time I'm supose to be out of the woods.

11.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

You've heard the expression " Aim small, miss small."

This could help everyone pick a spot...Aim for the deer's tiny time X is what I'd do....




:-)

12.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

You know if you Goober "internal clocks for deer" and "Do deer have an internal clock", the only thing that comes up is "Cooking times and methods for venison". :-) :wink :grin:


Obviously, someone needs to do more research on this topic.

13.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28082]...Aim for the deer's tiny time X is what I'd do....

:-)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28083]You know if you Goober "internal clocks for deer" and "Do deer have an internal clock", the only thing that comes up is "Cooking times and methods for venison". :-) :wink :grin:
[/QUOTE]


Wow...Tough crowd today...


Don't take it out on your waitress....:wink

14.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

No one cares Chris. Sad, sad state we find ourselves in these days.

This place makes Eders look like a rockin' good time.

15.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

LOL...

I say we bring in some scabs or some paid protestors---I mean posters---There's only so many threads the seven of us can start on our own...

It's too bad Facebook is against my religion...I feel like that's where all the action is...LOL

16.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

I remember when I was absent from BowCountry for a few days, had to try and decipher what I missed. You know, KDC dropped the f-bomb on Jon, or some troll caused a barroom brawl before Alex woke up from hyper sleep and had to ban a couple guys.

I would have to read for 2-3 hours to get back up to speed. Don't have to worry about that here. This is like the Sunday comics, just breeze over everything until you get to Hagar.

Sad, sad state we find ourselves in these days.

17.) billy b - 12/30/2014

I don't know about you guys but I'm going hunting tomorrow till Sun afternoon, I will get a buck (or doe) so there.:p

18.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

Hagar! My man!---I loved that comic. I always read Lil Abner, too, but I never understood what was going on, LOL...

19.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

Good luck Billy!...I'm living vicariously through you at this point. I have a few more days open but it looks like I'm done. Wet and dreary weather has taken the starch out of me.

Gonna get my act back together after four and a half months of deer season and then go after the skwirls hard when the sun comes back out...:-)

My fishing season kicks off in not too long, as well, so I have some stuff to do towards that.

20.) bluecat - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28085]Wow...Tough crowd today...


Don't take it out on your waitress....:wink[/QUOTE]

I almost posted "Takes a lickin and keeps on ticken" but it was too lame.

21.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

Here's a question:

Why--with trail cameras making such leaps in hunter usage over the last ten years or so---why do we not hear more people disputing the "all the deer have gone nocturnal" stories/narrative?

Surely others have seen what I've seen: That even in an area where you can legitimately say "our deer are very nocturnal" there are fairly long stretches during the season in which the chances are that a buck is moving during the daytime [I]somewhere on your hunting ground.[/I]


Hmmm...

22.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

Because there is something in all of us that wants to put the blame on something else.

I've always known that a deer will not lay perfectly still for 12-13 hours. Watched deer in a pen when I worked for a farmer, never saw one lay for more than 3-4 hours without getting up and moving around. I believe wild deer behave in the same manner.

So if I don't see a buck during daylight, I know I was in the wrong spot. Easier to blame the Game Comm., the Oct. lull, moon phase, or other hunters though.

23.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;28106]...So if I don't see a buck during daylight, I know I was in the wrong spot. Easier to blame the Game Comm., the Oct. lull, moon phase, or other hunters though.[/QUOTE]

That's the way I've come to look at it. I'd like to hear what other people in different parts of the country experienced this year, especially. I saw an almost complete shut-down of daytime buck activity in high deer usage areas during prime time...So far, several people have given me the same story in different states and areas.

But then if I look at my cameras, there were bucks moving in daylight in areas closer to thick cover, or in completely or virtually untouched areas. :bang:

24.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

A couple interesting facts from the study are in there if you browse around.

One was the size of a bucks range, differing in size from Sept. to Oct. Hunters blame it on 'Oct. Lull', when in reality it appears in Oct. a buck significantly increases his home range. So, he didn't necessarily start laying around, but actually starting living in a larger area, sometimes 4 times bigger than the one in Sept..

And the incredible distant they will travel in Nov. A buck can be miles and miles away from where you were getting pics of him in Sept.

25.) Wild Bob - 12/30/2014

"And the incredible distant they will travel in Nov. A buck can be miles and miles away from where you were getting pics of him in Sept."

That is [U]exactly why I always laugh [/U]when I hear guys say they won't hunt this area or that area...becasue there are no bucks there. IMO, there is no exception to putting your time in, regardless of the chosen area.

26.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

Makes sense. The lull is a function of hunters having more ground to cover with lower odds of being in the right place at the right time.

There was an article on home range or core area I came across recently. I'm not sure I got any great take-away from it other than maybe we don't know as much as we think we know about how and where bucks travel. It was either that or the concept of "core area" isn't all that helpful to hunters when you get right down to it.

I don't have any doubt bucks roam long distances, especially during the rut. It seems to me that what you have to do is get in the neighborhood of a 600-1000 acre hunting ground to have much of a shot at killing a buck that "lives there." Anything else is more likely than not "just" being in the right place at the right time.

27.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

I'm still intrigued by Luv2's buck that decided to go on a multi-mile walk in the afternoon, just to end up turning around and coming back to where he started the same day. That's a head-scratcher.

28.) Deerminator - 12/30/2014

I wish I had more ground to cover. I'm stuck with a small patch of woods and a few open farm fields.

29.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

I would say a possible deer drive, but he didn't seem like he was in any hurry about it. Maybe he smelled a doe????

30.) luv2bowhunt - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28123]I'm still intrigued by Luv2's buck that decided to go on a multi-mile walk in the afternoon, just to end up turning around and coming back to where he started the same day. That's a head-scratcher.[/QUOTE]

I would say a possible deer drive, but he didn't seem like he was in any hurry about it. Maybe he smelled a doe????

31.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

The doe was what I was thinking, but that's an awful long jaunt. And why return if it was so good to follow? Let's say she wasn't ready just yet...Would you turn around and just go home at the first rejection? LOL

32.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=Deerminator;28124]I wish I had more ground to cover. I'm stuck with a small patch of woods and a few open farm fields.[/QUOTE]

You need to move out west, D. Some places, they don't even consider a whitetail worthy. Weird, but true.

You wouldn't know what to do with yourself. :-)

33.) Wild Bob - 12/30/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;28130]You need to move out west, D. Some places, they don't even consider a whitetail worthy. Weird, but true.

You wouldn't know what to do with yourself. :-)[/QUOTE]

Very true Chris, there is a gun store in my town that has a most impressive collection of over 20 nice mulies. When I first moved here, I got talking to the owner and I commented on the nice bunch of mule deer mounts; he then infromed me that they were all taken by him over the years. I then commented that he must really prefer mule deer hunting to whitetail hunting. I was horrified when he responded that he " wouldn't kill one of those dirty, pesty little bastards if it was the last deer left on earth to hunt." Now bear in mind that we live along two of the best western whitetail drainages in the west (Missouri and Milk Rivers!) I was shocked, to put it mildly.

But I will say this: he is very much in the minority in his opinion, but I have run into a few others around here that think the same. But the mad masses of NRs more than make up for the minority (and that in part, IMO may contributre to the locals low opinion of the white-tail.)

34.) Swamp Fox - 12/30/2014

Has that area bounced back any from a few years ago?

I can see the attraction of mule deer hunting and all that, but nothing beats a whitetail, especially a mature eastern whitetail as far as a challenge goes...even an immature eastern (east coast/Southern) whitetail sometimes, LOL. This coming from someone who has never hunted mountain elk. :dig:

Don't get me started on what various people think about "turkeys"...LOL...Poor misguided sots...:wink

35.) Deerminator - 12/30/2014

Does mule deer taste better or different than our farm fed white tales?

36.) Deerminator - 12/30/2014

I"m all about dat taste.- bout dat taste.- bout dat taste. no antlers-, ( sung to the tune,... bout dat base)

37.) Wild Bob - 12/31/2014

"Has that area bounced back any from a few years ago?"

- Its been up and down...we had a couple of good growing seasos since the horrific winter and spring flooding of 2011, but then we got two bad years of EDH...sooo the poor white-tails are only a little better off than a couple of years ago. MFWP didn't even issue any doe permits for my area this year - and normally I could get upto 10...so I guess that sums it up! Nope, still not good yet.

"Does mule deer taste better or different than our farm fed white tales? "

- No, not really. Often an old mulie doesn't taste as good as a whitetail IMHO. The natives get it here: more whitetails get poached off the Res than any mulies! :td: