1.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

Been chewing on this for a while: I might be in the market to change things around next year. My choices are to go back to regular nocks, go back to regular nocks with reflective arrow wraps (I hope they still make them! LOL) buy some more Firenocks/replace batteries, or switch lighted nock brands.

Overall, I've been pleased with the Firenocks. The have a reputation for brightness (otherwise, why own them?) but I've seen some comparative reviews here and there that place others nocks (Lumenocks come to mind) above them in that category. I'm not sure I buy the idea that Firenocks are middle of the pack in terms of brightness, but at least one review says they are.

[url]http://www.bowhunting.com/blog/2012/8/27/lighted-nocks-which-is-right-for-you/?page=1[/url]

I used Lumenocks briefly way back and always found them to be a PITA, so I'm leery of giving them a second shot. I don't think they give me any advantage over Firenocks in the PITA category either, as far as assembly goes. For reliability of operation, Firenock has it all over my old Lumenocks. I hear opinions all over the map about today's Lumenocks.

I never had this problem with my Beman ICS Hunters, but some of my Firenocks rattle or buzz when installed in CX Blue Streaks. I've tried to figure out why with no luck. It's not the nock collar, and it's not just the practice nocks or the live nocks. Some of each are quiet, and some of each make noise. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it, because it drives me nuts that my quiver buzzes every time I breathe on it.

I have very little patience for assembling Firenocks, so it would be great if that issue would just go away. Or maybe I should just get over it, LOL. Can you tell that for me, the ideal lighted nock would be plug-and-play? I mean, I like the idea of replaceable batteries and all, but I'm not in love with it if I'm not getting extra brightness, especially considering the price Firenocks command.

Two newish lighted nocks that I've come across in my wanderings are the Clean Shot Nock Out and the Wasp Vesta. The Clean Shot looks especially interesting, and the Vesta seems a budget nock that some might be looking for.


[url]http://www.clean-shot.com/nocks-overview[/url]


[url]http://www.wasparchery.com/products/vesta-lighted-nock-3-pack[/url]

2.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

The "nock out" seems really nice.

Swampy do you think your Firenocks are rattling because you didn't put the optional shock protector inside the shaft?

3.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

I've pretty much dismissed the lighted nock phenomena - at least until:

They install in a standard shaft without glue or complicated instructions.
They don't weigh the back of my arrow so I lose valuable FOC.
They have some life to them and I don't have to replace the lighted nock every year. Replacing batteries is understandable but shouldn't warrant a whole lighted nock purchase.
They turn on and off reliably and easily.
They are relatively bright - doesn't have to be the brightest.
A blinking phase is a plus but not a deal breaker.

4.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

You know, that might be the thing. I didn't have to use the shock protector for the bow that shot the Bemans, but I got a call from Dorge that I needed the shock protectors when I bought nocks for the faster set-up. Pretty sure he didn't say anything about needing them for the shaft. If anything, the CX are a tighter fit (but maybe that causes some tension that causes looseness somewhere else). It's funny no one else has mentioned this as a possibility.

But the bottom line is that I blew off installing the shock protector, LOL. Too much aggravation. :bang::tap:...Possibly kicked my own butt on that...:groan:

5.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

I came across this on the Firenocks FAQ page. Never noticed it before. I don't find anything more recent/more helpful than this info, which seems somewhat incomplete and/or out of date:

[I]There are several reasons why there might be a rattling sound when you shake the nock:
Firenock core sensor is a G switch, it is a canister and ball design. The easiest way to see if what you hear is just the G switch is to remove the battery and the O-ring(s) , reinstall the nock and circuit alone into the projectile. If the sound still persists, you are actually hearing the switch and the ball system in action. When you shake the projectile, the ball of the acceleration switch will rock inside the metal canister; as it is inside a carbon tube which now behave like an amplifier. There is no way to eliminate that noise, as it is part of the design.
After 2009: the 0.15mm gap between the circuit and the nock is eliminated and -0.02mm has been added to make sure that there will be no space for the circuit to rattle.
[/I]



This doesn't explain why my post-2009 nocks rattle, nor why some of my practice nocks do. But maybe it will help someone.

6.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]I've been mulling over the whole lighted nock thing since I shot my buck. I'm pretty sure I know why it failed. The exit was right next to the sternum and when I cleaned the broadhead, I noticed one blade bent pretty badly. I either got a piece of the sternum or hit the knobby end of the rib(s). With the harsh impact, the arrow rattled the nock hard enough that it shut off. I know my Dad had one very similar incident. My brother has been using the Nockturnals for a couple seasons and doesn't have any such failures but he also doesn't recall one that hit anything but ribs. His one problem was a nock that didn't light after it had been through several deer. The hole in the side allows blood to get in the workings. If you clean them thoroughly, they will work for several animals. If they fail after that, I figure they've done their job and I wouldn't have a problem throwing them out. I've been looking at the nocks out there and I wouldn't be surprised if all of them except firenock and tracer are subject to the harsh impact shut off issue. The firenock has a G-switch and probably wouldn't shut off (because the acceleration is in the opposite direction) and the tracer uses a magnet on the bow. Most others seem to use a roughly similar shut off technique where you pull the nock backwards or push the little led backwards (nockturnal and several similar nocks). A hard impact would probably shut all of them off some of the time. Mind you this is just an educated guess based on nothing but looking at how the different nocks work. Basically what I'm saying is I don't see any other nock that looks to be worth switching to so I will stick with the nockturnals for now. [/B]

7.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]I checked out the Vesta and it just looks like a copy of the Nockturnal. The Nock out (clean shot) does look interesting but it bugs me that it sticks out the back of the arrow an extra 1/2" so I'd have to get over that...[/B]

8.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]On the bright side :grin: while I was on the Wasp website looking at the Vesta, I noticed they have a new broadhead the "drone". Looks nice, might have to try that one. :-)[/B]

9.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

[QUOTE=Triton Rich;26792][B]... Basically what I'm saying is I don't see any other nock that looks to be worth switching to so I will stick with the nockturnals for now. [/B][/QUOTE]


That's kind of the impression I've gotten over the last couple of years, too: If you're already using Nockturnals there's not that much out there more attractive.

10.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

[QUOTE=Triton Rich;26793][B]I checked out the Vesta and it just looks like a copy of the Nockturnal. The Nock out (clean shot) does look interesting but it bugs me that it sticks out the back of the arrow an extra 1/2" so I'd have to get over that...[/B][/QUOTE]

Totally missed that Triton. Yeah, that isn't good.

Guys, it can't be that hard can it?

11.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

It would be better to build your arrow from scratch around that extra 1/2 inch, I agree, but the extra weight of the nock would add spine lost with the extra length. In theory, anyway. I'm sure for some people it would screw them up and other people it would save them, LOL. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the majority wouldn't know or see any difference, LOL. You should see what some people I know are shooting that they shouldn't be, LOL

12.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]I was more worried about the extra length not being perfectly straight etc. Yes, you could build the arrow around it but that's just weird! [/B]

13.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

I just think that you could make a nock that is self-contained (energy source, led, circuit board). The battery on my Spot Hogg sight is smaller than a firenock battery. It doesn't make sense why there are so many shortfalls by the manufacturers.

14.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

[QUOTE=Triton Rich;26798][B]I was more worried about [B]the extra length not being perfectly straight [/B]etc. Yes, you could build the arrow around it but that's just weird! [/B][/QUOTE]



Good point. My first criticism was the non-aeorodynamic extra OD...Besides flight characteristics that might be affected, I wonder if it makes any perceptible noise going downrange.

What's the ready-made fletching assembly you screw into your shortened arrow shaft called? Combine that system with this system and you'd have something, LOL.

Think of all those movies where the sniper is screwing his rifle together from five pieces packed in a briefcase, LOL.

15.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]UGH! Nufletch ape tail. Another one that drives me crazy! They actually try to claim that the added weight on the back is beneficial, what a crock! That reminds me of another thing I don't like about firenock besides the $$$. They are about the heaviest lighted nock out there. I like to keep the foc pretty high for a more forgiving arrow. [/B]

16.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]Just for you Swampy, I'm gonna go shoot some nockturnals through some plywood. I'll be back in 15 min....
[/B]

17.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

NuFletch APE Arrow Tails is what I was thinking of...Some info on the Igniter lighted nock here as well (more if you surf from this link):

[url]http://www.nufletch.com/#!tom-miranda-tutorial/c1erx[/url]


I guess you wouldn't really need to add a Nock On to an Arrow Tail, since you could just use an Igniter, but it would be fun to watch someone try it, LOL...

18.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

[QUOTE=Triton Rich;26801][B]UGH! Nufletch ape tail. Another one that drives me crazy! They actually try to claim that the added weight on the back is beneficial, what a crock! ... [/B][/QUOTE]


I've noticed a trend in this claim from more and more people over the last few years.

19.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

The firenock + arrow wrap + Blazer vanes and my FOC went down the tubes. No thanks, I'm with you Triton Rich. I like a heavier front end.

20.) Triton Rich - 10/22/2014

[B]Well that was interesting. I took two of my nockturnals including the one that failed on my buck. I put them in some old gold tips I had laying around and shot them through a piece of 1/2" pressboard. The pressboard has been a target backstop for several years so it is a little perforated and soft. I shot 3 times and the nock lit up and stayed lit each time. On the third shot, I did manage to get the nock to fail in a different way. The battery slid forward in the nock so I couldn't shut it off. I ended up putting a drop of super glue on the battery and putting it back in place. It seems fine but I moved it to my #3 arrow anyway. Another little gripe that may or may not be the nock. I bought the correct Nockturnal for my Victory Vforce arrows. They fit fine in warm weather but when it gets cold, they get loose. To the point where the nock stays on the string when I pull the arrow off. The Bohning double lock nocks did the same thing. I guess the plastic shrinks in the cold more than the carbon does. I put a little scotch tape around the nock and it seems to have fixed that problem.[/B]

21.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;26805]The firenock + arrow wrap + Blazer vanes and my FOC went down the tubes. No thanks, I'm with you Triton Rich. I like a heavier front end.[/QUOTE]

I've had to use a wrap with Blazer vanes on some shafts but not on others. Did you put all that on a calculator? What if you skip the wrap? Most people would, I suppose.

22.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

I love my wraps. They enable me to follow my arrow (catch a sense of my arrow), enable me to take off fletching without scraping carbon and enable me to find my arrow. Can't tell you how many times my bright pink or orange fletching has allowed me to find it.

23.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

Have you thought about using a reflective wrap and skipping the lighted nock?

The only reason I started using lighted nocks was for video (for viewers to see), but I can see the benefit of the hunter seeing point-of-impact as well. Prior to a few years ago, I wasn't using lighted nocks at all because I found them unreliable. Reflective wrap for arrow retrieval and bright colors in nock and fletching to watch things in flight was sufficient. Loved my flo lime nocks with hot pink and white fletch/feathers or flo lime or chartreuse fletch/feathers for visibility in flight, especially on slower bows. :-):-)

Reflective wraps are heavy, unless you cut them down to just a few inches, or to a strip. But I think they're an acceptable alternative to a lighted nock if you use a small hunting vane or feathers.

24.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

Yes, I put it on the calculator and did an FOC. I'd have to go to the 'way back' machine but I'm thinking it dropped to 8%. I only used lighted nocks for a little bit. I couldn't get them to reliably turn on.

I love watching them on other peoples videos though. :wink

25.) bluecat - 10/22/2014

I also use 125 grain heads. I think it helps with FOC as well.

26.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

The buck I killed in Nebraska the first year I went out there was taken with a flo lime Easton nock with one purple and two flo lime four-inch feathers. No wrap. You could see that arrow plain as day in flight. In fact, somebody had the video on a loop at a trade show booth for one or two years because it was so pretty :wink. Kenny told me who, but I can't remember, LOL. Maybe TNT.

I don't recall exactly, but that bow shot in the high 240's I think...Great bow for video, LOL.

27.) Swamp Fox - 10/22/2014

I think out on the prairie I might rather have a good-sized bright or white wrap than a lighted nock for finding an arrow. If you could get a full-sized (usually 7 inches) or even a 3.5- 4-inch reflective wrap to work with your FOC, I bet that would be ideal. 125 gr. up front is how I went on a couple of wrapped set-ups, too.

28.) ARCHERXP - 10/25/2014

anybody try the helios?