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1.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
I get about three Cabela's catalogs a day...You know, the little 40-60-pagers on every sub-category of huntin', fishin', campin', boatin', shootin', drivin' a truck, and wearin' clothes that they can think of.
I usually at least open these up to the front page, 'cause a lot of times those loopy bastards in Nebraska will sneak a valuable coupon into a catalog that I might otherwise ignore. This is one of those times when Old School rules. I mean, I have the big hardcover catalog books, plus the innerwebz, right? But I love paper catalogs, and always have---And experience has taught me you can't let one go unread, just in case the crazy cornfed effers hid a $20 off 200 offer in there.
So, anyhoo--which they probably actually say in Nebraska--I open the Deer Camp Sale Catalog I got the other day and in addition to some cool new sausage-making gear that I never noticed before, plus a sale on a redesigned Primos blood light that I thought everyone gave up on a few years ago, I notice that this catalog has a bunch of [B]Pro Tips[/B]. They're all from people I've never heard of, including the obligatory female hunter with the same last name as some dude hunter a few pages further in, but I guess they're big in the Cabela's universe somehow.
The one exception is Mike Hanback, who used to be a big-cheese writer over at [I]Outdoor Life[/I] and elsewhere. I gather he's gone more into blogging and TV hunting these days, which I guess is understandable since print outdoor journalism has been going the way of the eastern panther and dusty boxes of ammunition for a while now. Hanback's writing was very recognizable, very lively and imaginitative. It often annoyed me more than a little, especially as the years went by, because much of his advice proposed that if you did X with a lot of colorful verbs, a lot of colorful nouns labeled Y were certain to be your reward: "Climb a tall stand on an oaky ridgeline and pop a mack daddy cruising for ladies midday." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blah blah blah. But at least he wasn't boring.
So naturally I was interested to see what Hanback's Pro Tip would be. Here it is, and I quote:
[I][B]"Screw two or three rubber-coated hardware hooks in the tree within reach of your treestand and hang up your daypack and other gear."
[/B][/I]:omg:
Really? Really?? This is your Pro Tip? (In the interest of complete honesty, Cabela's labeled it a "Pro Staff Technique".) After that, I'm surprised no one suggested to make sure you loaded your rifle before pulling the trigger. Obviously, I need to get in on this Pro Staff racket...
Now, I'm not saying that the tips from any of the other pro staffers were the result of startling brainstorms, either, but they weren't THAT lame.
Which got me to thinking: What's the most lame, most clever, worst or best "Pro Tip" you've ever gotten, or seen?
:fire:
I usually at least open these up to the front page, 'cause a lot of times those loopy bastards in Nebraska will sneak a valuable coupon into a catalog that I might otherwise ignore. This is one of those times when Old School rules. I mean, I have the big hardcover catalog books, plus the innerwebz, right? But I love paper catalogs, and always have---And experience has taught me you can't let one go unread, just in case the crazy cornfed effers hid a $20 off 200 offer in there.
So, anyhoo--which they probably actually say in Nebraska--I open the Deer Camp Sale Catalog I got the other day and in addition to some cool new sausage-making gear that I never noticed before, plus a sale on a redesigned Primos blood light that I thought everyone gave up on a few years ago, I notice that this catalog has a bunch of [B]Pro Tips[/B]. They're all from people I've never heard of, including the obligatory female hunter with the same last name as some dude hunter a few pages further in, but I guess they're big in the Cabela's universe somehow.
The one exception is Mike Hanback, who used to be a big-cheese writer over at [I]Outdoor Life[/I] and elsewhere. I gather he's gone more into blogging and TV hunting these days, which I guess is understandable since print outdoor journalism has been going the way of the eastern panther and dusty boxes of ammunition for a while now. Hanback's writing was very recognizable, very lively and imaginitative. It often annoyed me more than a little, especially as the years went by, because much of his advice proposed that if you did X with a lot of colorful verbs, a lot of colorful nouns labeled Y were certain to be your reward: "Climb a tall stand on an oaky ridgeline and pop a mack daddy cruising for ladies midday." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blah blah blah. But at least he wasn't boring.
So naturally I was interested to see what Hanback's Pro Tip would be. Here it is, and I quote:
[I][B]"Screw two or three rubber-coated hardware hooks in the tree within reach of your treestand and hang up your daypack and other gear."
[/B][/I]:omg:
Really? Really?? This is your Pro Tip? (In the interest of complete honesty, Cabela's labeled it a "Pro Staff Technique".) After that, I'm surprised no one suggested to make sure you loaded your rifle before pulling the trigger. Obviously, I need to get in on this Pro Staff racket...
Now, I'm not saying that the tips from any of the other pro staffers were the result of startling brainstorms, either, but they weren't THAT lame.
Which got me to thinking: What's the most lame, most clever, worst or best "Pro Tip" you've ever gotten, or seen?
:fire:
2.) luv2bowhunt - 10/07/2014
I saw that too. I was like 'what the....'!
Next it will be, 'wear a hat over your head if it's cold out'.
The one that frosted my pumpkin was one I've already mentioned before. But it was at the end of a Whitetail Freaks episode where Don Kisky was shooting a 160" buck in the late season in a soybean field that he left standing to hunt in. All other food had been strategically removed and picked clean off the farm, save for this one small field. Somehow, miraculously, magically, mysteriously, every deer in the farm gravitates to this field every evening. So after watching this for several days, Don waits until the wind is in his favor, climbs into his strategically placed blind, and waylays the unsuspecting buck just before dark on a mid-January day.
The announcer comes on at the end with this helpful tip, "the secret to Don's success was his intimate knowledge of a whitetail deer's feeding habits."
Oh that's the key then. He just has great knowledge, a knowledge far superior to the average hunting Joe. The rest of us would have been clueless and would have ended up sitting in a Weeping Willow at the edge of the frozen pond.
Give me a break.:bang:
Next it will be, 'wear a hat over your head if it's cold out'.
The one that frosted my pumpkin was one I've already mentioned before. But it was at the end of a Whitetail Freaks episode where Don Kisky was shooting a 160" buck in the late season in a soybean field that he left standing to hunt in. All other food had been strategically removed and picked clean off the farm, save for this one small field. Somehow, miraculously, magically, mysteriously, every deer in the farm gravitates to this field every evening. So after watching this for several days, Don waits until the wind is in his favor, climbs into his strategically placed blind, and waylays the unsuspecting buck just before dark on a mid-January day.
The announcer comes on at the end with this helpful tip, "the secret to Don's success was his intimate knowledge of a whitetail deer's feeding habits."
Oh that's the key then. He just has great knowledge, a knowledge far superior to the average hunting Joe. The rest of us would have been clueless and would have ended up sitting in a Weeping Willow at the edge of the frozen pond.
Give me a break.:bang:
3.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;26323]I saw that too. I was like 'what the....'!
Next it will be, 'wear a hat over your head if it's cold out'.
[/QUOTE]
Coming Up In The Next Issue: "Pro Tips From...Yer Mom!"
:p
Next it will be, 'wear a hat over your head if it's cold out'.
[/QUOTE]
Coming Up In The Next Issue: "Pro Tips From...Yer Mom!"
:p
4.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
Those are funny fellas. I could come up with many but most of them are just common sense.
For example. Dedicate each pocket in your pack to related items. Such as a pocket that would contain batteries, flashlight. Another pocket would contain tools such as knives, allen wrench etc. That way you don't have to constantly dig through your pack to locate items. Always keep the same things in the same pockets. But really it is common sense.
For example. Dedicate each pocket in your pack to related items. Such as a pocket that would contain batteries, flashlight. Another pocket would contain tools such as knives, allen wrench etc. That way you don't have to constantly dig through your pack to locate items. Always keep the same things in the same pockets. But really it is common sense.
5.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
How 'bout this. Don't use paracord to raise and lower your pack and bow...unless you want a nice rope burn on your hands. Use thicker cord or always wear gloves. :re:
6.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26329]How 'bout this. Don't use paracord to raise and lower your pack and bow...unless you want a nice rope burn on your hands. Use thicker cord or always wear gloves. :re:[/QUOTE]
Strap works better, too, such as in a Strapper Retriever or some of the self-winding devices like Doyle's where you might have a choice of strap or line. I have one self-winder with really small-diameter line and I always feel like maybe I should be trot-lining with it, LOL. You can do some serious damage with that one if you don't wear gloves.
You've never lived until your choice is a rope burn down to the bone or letting go of a $4000 video camera, LOL. And I believe that was with strap! I managed to raise a screaming burn blister before I made my final decision:jd:
Strap works better, too, such as in a Strapper Retriever or some of the self-winding devices like Doyle's where you might have a choice of strap or line. I have one self-winder with really small-diameter line and I always feel like maybe I should be trot-lining with it, LOL. You can do some serious damage with that one if you don't wear gloves.
You've never lived until your choice is a rope burn down to the bone or letting go of a $4000 video camera, LOL. And I believe that was with strap! I managed to raise a screaming burn blister before I made my final decision:jd:
7.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
Oh damn Swampy! That sounds nasty.
8.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
Once the load starts to slip, there's not much you can do about it, LOL. I think I got a little too ambitious about what I could handle on one line. I think there was the camera plus a not-light daypack on there.
Gravity is a bitch!
Gravity is a bitch!
9.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
Speaking of haul lines, I found this out hunting the windy prairies of Nebraska:
Use a self-winding haul line as you ascend and descend the tree, or your Strapper or paracord will be blown over every snag in two counties in the gentle plains breezes before you even make it to your destination. It's a real challenge if you use two haul lines, as I normally do.
If you don't like mechanical retrievers, 3/8 inch rope might be heavy enough not to get away from you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you need larger.
We get some wind here, but not like that, except maybe in a hurricane, LOL.
Use a self-winding haul line as you ascend and descend the tree, or your Strapper or paracord will be blown over every snag in two counties in the gentle plains breezes before you even make it to your destination. It's a real challenge if you use two haul lines, as I normally do.
If you don't like mechanical retrievers, 3/8 inch rope might be heavy enough not to get away from you, but I wouldn't be surprised if you need larger.
We get some wind here, but not like that, except maybe in a hurricane, LOL.
10.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[url]http://www.huntinhoist.com/php/index.php[/url]
[url]http://www.lewishunting.com/thestrapper.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.lewishunting.com/thestrapper.htm[/url]
11.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
I use two haul lines as well. I have the winding strap (second link) but I'm not smart enough to use it. So I strap my bow to one end at the bottom and then ascend with the winder until I reach the top?
:cf:
I currently have two heavy haul lines attaches to the bottom of my stand. They are loosely wrapped around my climbing sticks until I get so they aren't blowing around attracting attention. Unwind, attach bow and pack. Climb to stand. Haul up gear.
:cf:
I currently have two heavy haul lines attaches to the bottom of my stand. They are loosely wrapped around my climbing sticks until I get so they aren't blowing around attracting attention. Unwind, attach bow and pack. Climb to stand. Haul up gear.
12.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
Yes. I have a plastic (quiet) carabiner with a keyring O-ring on each side of my climbing harness, and on the upper sections of my climbers (as well as various other places, LOL--I am the Carabiner King, I think.)
Snap the Strapper onto a ring on the most convenient side of you and the tree, and loop and snap the other end to your bow or pack. The strap will play out as you climb, but in high wind and with a tall stand, some slack will develop that may blow around. I've never investigated whether or not I could increase the tension on the Strapper, but if I get ambitious I might try to take one apart just for S&G's, now that I've thought of it, LOL
When I'm up in the tree, I hand-line my gear up, reel up the slack strap for storage, and remove the Strappers from my belt to stow them. When it's time to climb down, I reattach to my belt and let my gear down. Or you can throw the Strapper out of the stand if you need/want to and don't mind the noise. They are pretty bomb-proof.
Snap the Strapper onto a ring on the most convenient side of you and the tree, and loop and snap the other end to your bow or pack. The strap will play out as you climb, but in high wind and with a tall stand, some slack will develop that may blow around. I've never investigated whether or not I could increase the tension on the Strapper, but if I get ambitious I might try to take one apart just for S&G's, now that I've thought of it, LOL
When I'm up in the tree, I hand-line my gear up, reel up the slack strap for storage, and remove the Strappers from my belt to stow them. When it's time to climb down, I reattach to my belt and let my gear down. Or you can throw the Strapper out of the stand if you need/want to and don't mind the noise. They are pretty bomb-proof.
13.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
I don't use a lot of pre-set haul ropes for a variety of reasons. I find that the Strappers are more compact and no more weight than carrying one or two 30- foot bundles of decent-sized rope, and a lot less of a PITA to manage.
14.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
Anybody interested in me posting some line/rope-coiling techniques for no-tangle deployment?
15.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26344]Anybody interested in me posting some line/rope-coiling techniques for no-tangle deployment?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#0000FF"][B][I][SIZE=2]{SOUND OF CRICKETS}[/SIZE][/I][/B][/COLOR]
Oh, yeah? Well...Screw you guys, I'm goin' home!
[COLOR="#0000FF"][B][I][SIZE=2]{SOUND OF CRICKETS}[/SIZE][/I][/B][/COLOR]
Oh, yeah? Well...Screw you guys, I'm goin' home!
16.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26343]I don't use a lot of pre-set haul ropes for a variety of reasons. I find that the Strappers are more compact and no more weight than carrying one or two 30- foot bundles of decent-sized rope, and a lot less of a PITA to manage.[/QUOTE]
I'm still not sure why having a haul line attached to the bottom of your stand and tied to the bottom of the first rung of your climbing stick is problematic.
This is a real convenient and easy way to coil rope/paracord.
I'm still not sure why having a haul line attached to the bottom of your stand and tied to the bottom of the first rung of your climbing stick is problematic.
This is a real convenient and easy way to coil rope/paracord.
17.) Deerminator - 10/07/2014
WHERE'S THE [COLOR="#0000FF"][SIZE=7]TA DAAAAA!!!!!!!!!????????????[/SIZE] [/COLOR]THERE WS NO [SIZE=6]TADAAA!!!![/SIZE]
18.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26347]I'm still not sure why having a haul line attached to the bottom of your stand and tied to the bottom of the first rung of your climbing stick is problematic.
[/QUOTE]
It's fine if you have set stands, especially if they are multi-trunked or otherwise hard to get into.
It also saves you carrying rope in and out each trip.
Obviously, if you use climbers or same-day sets, if you're mobile, have a lot of stands, or worry about weathered line/rope vs. treasured gear, you might not want to/be able to set up all stands with haul ropes ahead of time.
[/QUOTE]
It's fine if you have set stands, especially if they are multi-trunked or otherwise hard to get into.
It also saves you carrying rope in and out each trip.
Obviously, if you use climbers or same-day sets, if you're mobile, have a lot of stands, or worry about weathered line/rope vs. treasured gear, you might not want to/be able to set up all stands with haul ropes ahead of time.
19.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26350]It's fine if you have set stands, especially if they are multi-trunked or otherwise hard to get into.
It also saves you carrying rope in and out each trip.
Obviously, if you use climbers or same-day sets, if you're mobile, have a lot of stands, or worry about weathered line/rope vs. treasured gear, you might not want to/be able to set up all stands with haul ropes ahead of time.[/QUOTE]
I feel ya. Makes sense. I coil the line up using the coiling technique in the video I sent and the line dangles from the stand a few inches when in storage but each stand has its own haul lines.
It also saves you carrying rope in and out each trip.
Obviously, if you use climbers or same-day sets, if you're mobile, have a lot of stands, or worry about weathered line/rope vs. treasured gear, you might not want to/be able to set up all stands with haul ropes ahead of time.[/QUOTE]
I feel ya. Makes sense. I coil the line up using the coiling technique in the video I sent and the line dangles from the stand a few inches when in storage but each stand has its own haul lines.
20.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
I came up learning to hunt mobile, so the convenience of pre-set stands and pre-set haul lines is not lost on me. Or, put another way, setting a haul rope when I set a "permanent" stand is not always part of my routine. I have to make sure guests are prepared for the possibility that a stand I direct them to will not be like checking into the Hilton as soon as they pull up to it. LOL. They will likely have to provide their own ropes. :wink
21.) luv2bowhunt - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26353]I came up learning to hunt mobile, so the convenience of pre-set stands and pre-set haul lines is not lost on me. Or, put another way, setting a haul rope when I set a "permanent" stand is not always part of my routine.[/QUOTE]
That's one thing I always do ahead of time. One less thing to screw with in the dark on a morning hunt. I have enough to do on the ground as it is, and I just want to get up the tree as quick as possible.
Do you guys put on layers/jackets before you climb up, or are you doing that in the tree? I have the same routine on stand arrival. Hook up bow, unpack clothes, put on layers, put on safety harness, put on binos, put out scent, get up the tree.
Some mornings it just doesn't happen fast enough to suit me. Nothing like being halfway done putting on layers and a buck is grunting 50 yds away in the dark.
That's one thing I always do ahead of time. One less thing to screw with in the dark on a morning hunt. I have enough to do on the ground as it is, and I just want to get up the tree as quick as possible.
Do you guys put on layers/jackets before you climb up, or are you doing that in the tree? I have the same routine on stand arrival. Hook up bow, unpack clothes, put on layers, put on safety harness, put on binos, put out scent, get up the tree.
Some mornings it just doesn't happen fast enough to suit me. Nothing like being halfway done putting on layers and a buck is grunting 50 yds away in the dark.
22.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
LOL...
I killed my best rifle buck running late, elbow-lifting a climber up a tree while I could hear him rubbing in the distance. I'm semi-convinced he heard me going up the tree and thought it was another buck rubbing at the edge of the cutover.
I would quit carrying haul ropes in and out if I could be sure each and every tree I want to hunt already had two sitting there, but I can't, so I just carry the ropes and if there's something there ahead of time, great, but I never get caught by surprise this way, LOL.
I usually dress at the tree but save the top two or even three layers for once I am aboard the stand. Too warm and sometimes humid to climb fully dressed. I hate walking in and sweating with too many clothes on, as well. I don't even like to stink up my climbing harness on the walk in, so that comes in with me in a pack or bag.
Since ditching the bulky 4-point TMA harnesses for good two or three seasons ago (I completed my gradual transition to a rock-climbing harness over time) it makes layering clothes and adjusting to changing conditions in the tree so much easier. I always had to think too hard about what layer went where and could you put the TMA safety harness or the binos on now or did I have to wait for another layer, when I had to worry about shoulder straps and a behind-the-head tether.
I killed my best rifle buck running late, elbow-lifting a climber up a tree while I could hear him rubbing in the distance. I'm semi-convinced he heard me going up the tree and thought it was another buck rubbing at the edge of the cutover.
I would quit carrying haul ropes in and out if I could be sure each and every tree I want to hunt already had two sitting there, but I can't, so I just carry the ropes and if there's something there ahead of time, great, but I never get caught by surprise this way, LOL.
I usually dress at the tree but save the top two or even three layers for once I am aboard the stand. Too warm and sometimes humid to climb fully dressed. I hate walking in and sweating with too many clothes on, as well. I don't even like to stink up my climbing harness on the walk in, so that comes in with me in a pack or bag.
Since ditching the bulky 4-point TMA harnesses for good two or three seasons ago (I completed my gradual transition to a rock-climbing harness over time) it makes layering clothes and adjusting to changing conditions in the tree so much easier. I always had to think too hard about what layer went where and could you put the TMA safety harness or the binos on now or did I have to wait for another layer, when I had to worry about shoulder straps and a behind-the-head tether.
23.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
I always choose a destination that is a short walk to my stand. Drop off my cart and kill bag. I take a moment, bathroom if I need to, put on stand clothes, harness up, spritz, blue face paint, pep talk. Walk in like a whiff of smoke.
24.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26353]I came up learning to hunt mobile, so the convenience of pre-set stands and pre-set haul lines is not lost on me. Or, put another way, setting a haul rope when I set a "permanent" stand is not always part of my routine. I have to make sure guests are prepared for the possibility that a stand I direct them to will not be like checking into the Hilton as soon as they pull up to it. LOL. They will likely have to provide their own ropes. :wink[/QUOTE]
The least you could do would be to leave a mint on the seat.
The least you could do would be to leave a mint on the seat.
25.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;26355]... Hook up bow, unpack clothes, put on layers, put on safety harness, put on binos, put out scent, get up the tree...
[/QUOTE]
I'd be interested to know how people put out their scents. Let's say your stand faces into the wind or you have a crosswind. However you prefer. Explain your scent placement, wind directions, distances, how you avoid walking where deer want to walk (particularly in the dark) etc.
Pro Tip: I leave a little light at my stand in case I get turned around/out a ways and can't figure out where the stand went in the dark, LOL. Works at the end of the day, too, when it's time to pick up scents or go find first blood.
[/QUOTE]
I'd be interested to know how people put out their scents. Let's say your stand faces into the wind or you have a crosswind. However you prefer. Explain your scent placement, wind directions, distances, how you avoid walking where deer want to walk (particularly in the dark) etc.
Pro Tip: I leave a little light at my stand in case I get turned around/out a ways and can't figure out where the stand went in the dark, LOL. Works at the end of the day, too, when it's time to pick up scents or go find first blood.
26.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26356]LOL...
I killed my best rifle buck running late, elbow-lifting a climber up a tree while I could hear him rubbing in the distance. I'm semi-convinced he heard me going up the tree and thought it was another buck rubbing at the edge of the cutover.
I would quit carrying haul ropes in and out if I could be sure each and every tree I want to hunt already had two sitting there, but I can't, so I just carry the ropes and if there's something there ahead of time, great, but I never get caught by surprise this way, LOL.
I usually dress at the tree but save the top two or even three layers for once I am aboard the stand. Too warm and sometimes humid to climb fully dressed. I hate walking in and sweating with too many clothes on, as well. I don't even like to stink up my climbing harness on the walk in, so that comes in with me in a pack or bag.
Since ditching the bulky 4-point TMA harnesses for good two or three seasons ago (I completed my gradual transition to a rock-climbing harness over time) it makes layering clothes and adjusting to changing conditions in the tree so much easier. I always had to think too hard about what layer went where and could you put the TMA safety harness or the binos on now or did I have to wait for another layer, when I had to worry about shoulder straps and a behind-the-head tether.[/QUOTE]
Someday you will show us this invention/technique/harness thingy no?
I killed my best rifle buck running late, elbow-lifting a climber up a tree while I could hear him rubbing in the distance. I'm semi-convinced he heard me going up the tree and thought it was another buck rubbing at the edge of the cutover.
I would quit carrying haul ropes in and out if I could be sure each and every tree I want to hunt already had two sitting there, but I can't, so I just carry the ropes and if there's something there ahead of time, great, but I never get caught by surprise this way, LOL.
I usually dress at the tree but save the top two or even three layers for once I am aboard the stand. Too warm and sometimes humid to climb fully dressed. I hate walking in and sweating with too many clothes on, as well. I don't even like to stink up my climbing harness on the walk in, so that comes in with me in a pack or bag.
Since ditching the bulky 4-point TMA harnesses for good two or three seasons ago (I completed my gradual transition to a rock-climbing harness over time) it makes layering clothes and adjusting to changing conditions in the tree so much easier. I always had to think too hard about what layer went where and could you put the TMA safety harness or the binos on now or did I have to wait for another layer, when I had to worry about shoulder straps and a behind-the-head tether.[/QUOTE]
Someday you will show us this invention/technique/harness thingy no?
27.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26358]The least you could do would be to leave a mint on the seat.[/QUOTE]
LOL...I'll put that in the hopper.
Ever since Floyd told me he liked my bigger treesteps a lot better than my small ones, I feel like I've really stepped up my customer service...
LOL...I'll put that in the hopper.
Ever since Floyd told me he liked my bigger treesteps a lot better than my small ones, I feel like I've really stepped up my customer service...
28.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26360]Someday you will show us this invention/technique/harness thingy no?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, yeah, yeah...I haven't forgotten. LOL... Let me see what I can do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...I haven't forgotten. LOL... Let me see what I can do.
29.) bluecat - 10/07/2014
:grin:
30.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26360]Someday you will show us this invention/technique/harness thingy no?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26363]Yeah, yeah, yeah...I haven't forgotten. LOL... Let me see what I can do.[/QUOTE]
Pictures should go up soon...Assuming I can get all my cables and the 8x10 glossy photographs with the circles and arrows all to line up correctly...LOL
[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;26363]Yeah, yeah, yeah...I haven't forgotten. LOL... Let me see what I can do.[/QUOTE]
Pictures should go up soon...Assuming I can get all my cables and the 8x10 glossy photographs with the circles and arrows all to line up correctly...LOL
31.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
Okay, here we go:
First, a basic rock-climbing seat harness. You will NOT flip upside down and you won't be dangling facing away from the tree with your tether behind your head, blood pooling in your legs soon to lead to suspension trauma.
Lightweight, inexpensive, and lots less bulky than even the tiniest 4-point harnesses.
Note the lack of metal at the seat and back of the legs, which is why I chose this model. You may prefer a model that buckles at the legs if you have big legs/bulky clothes. But if you can put on a pair of waders, you can put on a non-buckling harness. This model, as maybe most are, is designed to be stepped into, even at the waist.
Note the camo pouch which holds bow hooks, arrow holders and my cell phone (keeping it with me if I am separated from my pack by gravity, that bitch). Note also the little light at the front, for discretely lighting up my bow sight's yardage tape as it gets dark. Also, the previously mentioned keychain carabiners for hooking up my Strappers, and two locking load-bearing carabiners for when I need a linesman's belt. All of this is extra. The basic harness weighs next to nothing.
">
Next, a daisy chain, which attaches to the harness in the front via a girth hitch, and to your safety lines, loop runners, tree tether, etc. by way of climber's (load-bearing) carabiners. Note the quick-snap carabiner with the wide gap, big hook and wire gate at the front of the daisy chain, and the locking carabiner a few loops back. They are both rated about the same for falls (more than you'll need) but the one in the front is special kryptonian metal for extreme light weight. Its design also allows you to quickly hook into droopy lines one-handed better than other designs. I use it to quickly hook into a loop runner (more on that later) before climbing in or out of the stand. Once quickly attached, I can then attach the locking carabiner, taking up slack and using the lock. The multiple loops on the daisy chain and the use of two carabiners make for lots of length adjustment and provide that you can always be snapped in even while making adjustments with the other carabiner.
A loop runner or two hitched together is/are pre-installed around the tree using a simple girth hitch at treestand seat height. The end dangles down the tree near the top of your steps so you can take your quick-clip carabiner and snap in while negotiating the last few steps and swinging aboard. However, to reduce slack and to add a measure of safety, you should take your second (locking) carabiner (which is attached to the daisy chain closer to your body) and clip that to the loop runner as well as soon as you are attached with the quick clip. THEN swing aboard. If you do it right, your attachment to the tree will be neither too tight nor too slack.
When you need to, a loop runner (or really two of them, one on each side of the harness) can be used to form linesman's loops on your harness for use with a linesman's belt that has safety-rated carabiners on it, or you can use appropriate carabiners that you supply, attached to the harness itself, as shown earlier. Here I have simply doubled the shortest loop runner I had handy and girth-hitched it around the harness to show you one side.
Rock harnesses do not come with linesman's belt attachment loops. If you see "original equipment" loops on a rock belt, DO NOT use them to attach a climbing belt. Those loops are made to hold climbing tools. They are absolutely UNSAFE to tie yourself to.
Once you are in the stand, take your standard tree tether that uses a prussic knot for tightening and loosening, and wrap it around the tree. Take your locking carabiner and hook it into your tree tether (which may or may not use its own carabiner, as mine does). Note that even while you are doing this, your other (quick-clip) carabiner has you attached to the tree by the loop runner. You can now detach that carabiner. Leave it on the daisy chain.
If you attach your tree tether at standing chest height, you will "semi-permanently" find the loop on your daisy chain that lets you sit snugly tethered with the daisy chain running under your armpit and tight to your string hand side. Obviously the daisy chain is attached to your rock harness in your front, near your belt buckle. You should be able to turn in your seat and shoot behind the tree on your bowhand side without rising when everything is adjusted properly. You should also be able to turn in all directions while standing WITHOUT THE DAMN BACK TETHER OF TMA HARNESSES INTERFERING WITH YOUR BOW OR WITH YOUR STRING ARM.
You can also add or shed layers of shirts, vests, jackets--even bino harnesses---to your heart's content without ever being disconnected from the tree, because you no longer have to worry about a shoulder harness and whether it needs to be inside this layer or outside that one.
Once you try this system, I bet you never go back to your old harness.
Note the little clip light that I leave on my tree tether and the extra keychain carabiners for quiver attachment, etc. You should leave the unused climbing carabiner on the daisy chain at all times so it is always available. You'll easily figure out that/how noise isn't/won't be an issue, even with untaped carabiners. If all the exposed metal bothers you, duct tape or ---better yet---vet tape is your friend.
You can adjust tightness or slack of your attachment to the tree with the two carabiners, daisy chain loops, tree tether prussic, or all of the above. If I get in a jam with a deer behind me (I shouldn't, but let's say it happens) I can loosen the prussic of the tree tether with a quick tug, and Voila---free at last!
Bonus footage of Mr. Pounce,, who came over to see what his little 2-year old brain thought of all the picture-taking.
First, a basic rock-climbing seat harness. You will NOT flip upside down and you won't be dangling facing away from the tree with your tether behind your head, blood pooling in your legs soon to lead to suspension trauma.
Lightweight, inexpensive, and lots less bulky than even the tiniest 4-point harnesses.
Note the lack of metal at the seat and back of the legs, which is why I chose this model. You may prefer a model that buckles at the legs if you have big legs/bulky clothes. But if you can put on a pair of waders, you can put on a non-buckling harness. This model, as maybe most are, is designed to be stepped into, even at the waist.
Note the camo pouch which holds bow hooks, arrow holders and my cell phone (keeping it with me if I am separated from my pack by gravity, that bitch). Note also the little light at the front, for discretely lighting up my bow sight's yardage tape as it gets dark. Also, the previously mentioned keychain carabiners for hooking up my Strappers, and two locking load-bearing carabiners for when I need a linesman's belt. All of this is extra. The basic harness weighs next to nothing.
">Next, a daisy chain, which attaches to the harness in the front via a girth hitch, and to your safety lines, loop runners, tree tether, etc. by way of climber's (load-bearing) carabiners. Note the quick-snap carabiner with the wide gap, big hook and wire gate at the front of the daisy chain, and the locking carabiner a few loops back. They are both rated about the same for falls (more than you'll need) but the one in the front is special kryptonian metal for extreme light weight. Its design also allows you to quickly hook into droopy lines one-handed better than other designs. I use it to quickly hook into a loop runner (more on that later) before climbing in or out of the stand. Once quickly attached, I can then attach the locking carabiner, taking up slack and using the lock. The multiple loops on the daisy chain and the use of two carabiners make for lots of length adjustment and provide that you can always be snapped in even while making adjustments with the other carabiner.
A loop runner or two hitched together is/are pre-installed around the tree using a simple girth hitch at treestand seat height. The end dangles down the tree near the top of your steps so you can take your quick-clip carabiner and snap in while negotiating the last few steps and swinging aboard. However, to reduce slack and to add a measure of safety, you should take your second (locking) carabiner (which is attached to the daisy chain closer to your body) and clip that to the loop runner as well as soon as you are attached with the quick clip. THEN swing aboard. If you do it right, your attachment to the tree will be neither too tight nor too slack.
When you need to, a loop runner (or really two of them, one on each side of the harness) can be used to form linesman's loops on your harness for use with a linesman's belt that has safety-rated carabiners on it, or you can use appropriate carabiners that you supply, attached to the harness itself, as shown earlier. Here I have simply doubled the shortest loop runner I had handy and girth-hitched it around the harness to show you one side.
Rock harnesses do not come with linesman's belt attachment loops. If you see "original equipment" loops on a rock belt, DO NOT use them to attach a climbing belt. Those loops are made to hold climbing tools. They are absolutely UNSAFE to tie yourself to.
Once you are in the stand, take your standard tree tether that uses a prussic knot for tightening and loosening, and wrap it around the tree. Take your locking carabiner and hook it into your tree tether (which may or may not use its own carabiner, as mine does). Note that even while you are doing this, your other (quick-clip) carabiner has you attached to the tree by the loop runner. You can now detach that carabiner. Leave it on the daisy chain.
If you attach your tree tether at standing chest height, you will "semi-permanently" find the loop on your daisy chain that lets you sit snugly tethered with the daisy chain running under your armpit and tight to your string hand side. Obviously the daisy chain is attached to your rock harness in your front, near your belt buckle. You should be able to turn in your seat and shoot behind the tree on your bowhand side without rising when everything is adjusted properly. You should also be able to turn in all directions while standing WITHOUT THE DAMN BACK TETHER OF TMA HARNESSES INTERFERING WITH YOUR BOW OR WITH YOUR STRING ARM.
You can also add or shed layers of shirts, vests, jackets--even bino harnesses---to your heart's content without ever being disconnected from the tree, because you no longer have to worry about a shoulder harness and whether it needs to be inside this layer or outside that one.
Once you try this system, I bet you never go back to your old harness.
Note the little clip light that I leave on my tree tether and the extra keychain carabiners for quiver attachment, etc. You should leave the unused climbing carabiner on the daisy chain at all times so it is always available. You'll easily figure out that/how noise isn't/won't be an issue, even with untaped carabiners. If all the exposed metal bothers you, duct tape or ---better yet---vet tape is your friend.
You can adjust tightness or slack of your attachment to the tree with the two carabiners, daisy chain loops, tree tether prussic, or all of the above. If I get in a jam with a deer behind me (I shouldn't, but let's say it happens) I can loosen the prussic of the tree tether with a quick tug, and Voila---free at last!
Bonus footage of Mr. Pounce,, who came over to see what his little 2-year old brain thought of all the picture-taking.
32.) Swamp Fox - 10/07/2014
All this, except for Mr. Pounce and loop runners, will be available at any decent trail/climbing shop. I can get some sources together if anyone needs. Go to an arborist's supply house like Sherrill's for loop runners and other pro gear. Go to the tunafish aisle at your local grocery store if you'd like to meet Mr. Pounce.
33.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
Of course, you simply reverse this process to exit the tree. Take the loop runner which you left wrapped around the tree at seat height (the loop runner stays at the tree) and clip your unused climbing carabiner (which is on the end of your daisy chain if you're following instructions) to it.
Unclip your locking carabiner from your tree tether, and clip IT to your loop runner. Stow your tree tether.
Step out of the stand and down a step or two. You can detach one and then both carabiners from the loop runner as soon as you feel it is safe to do so. Leave the loop runner in position for next time, and stuff the daisy chain in a pocket or your waistband to prevent the carabiners from clicking on your treesteps or clanging on your ladder as you descend.
(You might have already guessed that you similarly stow the daisy chain when you climb up. It is attached to the harness all the way up or down the tree. You can detach it from the harness for storage or walking in and out if you want to, but you wear it attached to the harness while climbing.)
Unclip your locking carabiner from your tree tether, and clip IT to your loop runner. Stow your tree tether.
Step out of the stand and down a step or two. You can detach one and then both carabiners from the loop runner as soon as you feel it is safe to do so. Leave the loop runner in position for next time, and stuff the daisy chain in a pocket or your waistband to prevent the carabiners from clicking on your treesteps or clanging on your ladder as you descend.
(You might have already guessed that you similarly stow the daisy chain when you climb up. It is attached to the harness all the way up or down the tree. You can detach it from the harness for storage or walking in and out if you want to, but you wear it attached to the harness while climbing.)
34.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
That's all well and good but tell us more about Mr. Pounce...
35.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
Swampy is there a picture of you or a catalog picture of someone wearing this system? I need to picture it in my head when it is on. Then I can ask more questions. :wink
36.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
The only good one I could find was this one...
Let me see if I can dig up anything better. :wink
Let me see if I can dig up anything better. :wink
37.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
Here is perhaps a better picture of a harness itself...If I knew how to make the harness float in the air and not collapse in on itself, I would have shown mine this way....
Note the gear loops (NOT FOR LINESMAN"S BELT) and the snap buckles on the legs of this one.
For some reason the image won't post here, so here's the link:
[url]http://www.rei.com/product/699550/black-diamond-alpine-bod-climbing-harness[/url]
Note the gear loops (NOT FOR LINESMAN"S BELT) and the snap buckles on the legs of this one.
For some reason the image won't post here, so here's the link:
[url]http://www.rei.com/product/699550/black-diamond-alpine-bod-climbing-harness[/url]
38.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
39.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26375]That's all well and good but tell us more about Mr. Pounce...[/QUOTE]
He's a tender little guy...Enjoys seafood and long walks down the driveway...
He's a tender little guy...Enjoys seafood and long walks down the driveway...
40.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
That helps. Okay, so I like the harness, but I don't understand why something such as this doesn't come with a metal linesman loop (for attaching a belt or rope). It's one of the most useful features there is. Hanging a stand without one is simply stupid. On yours, you use a carabiner. Aren't you afraid that the carabiner will slide around under tension at an inopportune time.
I'm not seeing where the whole thing attaches to the tree. The reason why layers are such a problem with a harness is because the harness has to come up from behind the neck. If it does, like mine, you can take layers on an off without a problem.
By the way, thanks for posting all of this.
I'm not seeing where the whole thing attaches to the tree. The reason why layers are such a problem with a harness is because the harness has to come up from behind the neck. If it does, like mine, you can take layers on an off without a problem.
By the way, thanks for posting all of this.
41.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
I always liked my harness on the outside of my clothes if I could manage it because it had bino clips and I put stuff on the belt, but I take your point.
These belts are made for climbing rock walls, so no trees to throw a linesman's belt around. :wink You can add loops for a belt as I have shown. I should have explained those carabiners a little better. If I had all my gear with me I could show you better. Those carabiners are on the belt just for storage and photograph purposes. I might use them on the looped ends of a linesman's belt (not available right now) [B]in conjunction with the girth-hitched loops I have made from loop runners (see yellow loop attached to harness above).
[/B]
So don't get too hung up on the linesman's belt issue and my explanation or photos here. If you want a better explanation of the linesman's belt issue, I'll work on it for you but it will take me a little time.
Also, in reality, I set up most of my stands ahead of time (too hot and too much work to hunt the set right away) and that means I have the luxury of keeping my hunting harness reserved for hunting while I use other gear for hanging stands. I actually have a pretty good system for that, too. :wink I'm working on making the rock harness as good as what I've got going with other gear, but I'm not there quite yet. But it's not rocket science. Put some loops on each side of the rock harness (cinch them down--water knot, girth hitch-- or sew them in) and off you go.
These belts are made for climbing rock walls, so no trees to throw a linesman's belt around. :wink You can add loops for a belt as I have shown. I should have explained those carabiners a little better. If I had all my gear with me I could show you better. Those carabiners are on the belt just for storage and photograph purposes. I might use them on the looped ends of a linesman's belt (not available right now) [B]in conjunction with the girth-hitched loops I have made from loop runners (see yellow loop attached to harness above).
[/B]
So don't get too hung up on the linesman's belt issue and my explanation or photos here. If you want a better explanation of the linesman's belt issue, I'll work on it for you but it will take me a little time.
Also, in reality, I set up most of my stands ahead of time (too hot and too much work to hunt the set right away) and that means I have the luxury of keeping my hunting harness reserved for hunting while I use other gear for hanging stands. I actually have a pretty good system for that, too. :wink I'm working on making the rock harness as good as what I've got going with other gear, but I'm not there quite yet. But it's not rocket science. Put some loops on each side of the rock harness (cinch them down--water knot, girth hitch-- or sew them in) and off you go.
42.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
As far as attachment to the tree goes, as you climb into the stand (really, just before) you snap in to the pre-installed loop runner girth-hitched around the tree. You use [B]the carabiners on your [B]daisy chain, which is attached by girth hitch to the front of your harness[/B].
[/B]
Once aboard your stand, you attach a [B]tree tether [/B](the kind everyone is familiar with, but I prefer the prussic type) at approximately standing chest height and hook your daisy chain to it with your best carabiner, after detaching that carabiner from the loop runner. [B]You are now attached to the tree in two places by your daisy chain's two carabiners (at the tree tether and at the loop runner), and can detach the carabiner which is attached to the loop runner.
[/B]
As you sit or face away from the tree, the daisy chain (the equivalent of a TMA back tether at this point) runs under your arm (armpit) on your string hand side, fairly tight to your body, attached to you at your front, belt level, at your rock harness' attachment loop (the red loop in my photographs).
Let me know if I'm being unclear and I'll try to go into more detail or supply more photos.
[/B]
Once aboard your stand, you attach a [B]tree tether [/B](the kind everyone is familiar with, but I prefer the prussic type) at approximately standing chest height and hook your daisy chain to it with your best carabiner, after detaching that carabiner from the loop runner. [B]You are now attached to the tree in two places by your daisy chain's two carabiners (at the tree tether and at the loop runner), and can detach the carabiner which is attached to the loop runner.
[/B]
As you sit or face away from the tree, the daisy chain (the equivalent of a TMA back tether at this point) runs under your arm (armpit) on your string hand side, fairly tight to your body, attached to you at your front, belt level, at your rock harness' attachment loop (the red loop in my photographs).
Let me know if I'm being unclear and I'll try to go into more detail or supply more photos.
43.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
I added some bold to highlight where I just did some editing for added clarity.
44.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
You obviously have given this a lot of thought and "no" what you are talking about. I didn't think it was too much to ask manufacturers to provide a metal loop on each side of a belt so it could double as a linesman belt. I currently have this on my harness (Seat of the Pants). Don't know if it is still made but very nice feature.
As you understand deer gear can rather cumbersome. A one-size-fits-all solution is nice because lets say I want to move my stand on a whim one day after sitting for a couple of hours. Did I remember to bring the particular harness to move the stand? I'm more of a "tool for every job" kinda guy but sometimes you need a multitasker. The thing that is most attractive (I think I'm understanding your system) about your system is the fact that I'm not trying to shoot around a tether when I shoot at a particular angle.
As you understand deer gear can rather cumbersome. A one-size-fits-all solution is nice because lets say I want to move my stand on a whim one day after sitting for a couple of hours. Did I remember to bring the particular harness to move the stand? I'm more of a "tool for every job" kinda guy but sometimes you need a multitasker. The thing that is most attractive (I think I'm understanding your system) about your system is the fact that I'm not trying to shoot around a tether when I shoot at a particular angle.
45.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
Oh, and more naked rock climbing pictures please.
46.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
The fact that you keep your cell phone on your body is smart. I appreciated your saying that. Some people have it in their pack. Fall out of a tree, break something and look up at their pack in a tree. Oops.
47.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26385]You obviously have given this a lot of thought and "no" what you are talking about. [/QUOTE]
I spend a lot of time in trees, just thinking. :wink
Rock climbing is pretty big around here with the mountains relatively close. And of course nowadays lots of places have climbing walls. I really started fiddling with this around 2002 when I took my then-honey to the state NWTF banquet in Charlotte at Bass Pro. She did the rock climbing wall and shot bows while I spent most of the time in a tow truck and auto repair waiting area fixing her car for her (It went paws up as soon as we arrived at the hotel the first night.)
Anyhoo, I got to see some of the rock climbing (which she loved) and the gear, and the wheels started spinning, accelerated by the fact that she wanted to sit in treestands every once in a while and I wasn't willing to let her do some of the stuff I was willing and accustomed to doing myself at that point (safety-defying stuff, is what I mean). Watching her climb in and out of stands without being secured to the tree scared the $#!+ out of me, but that's what I was doing at the time, as well. So I started coming up with some stuff more for her than for me, but now that I have a few more years on me my stomach gets flippy when I think about the way I used to do things myself. :jd:
I got into 4-point TMA harnesses reluctantly (though I made her use one) several years afterwards. I had a belt system I liked (Silent Slide) but there were various issues including a limited usable tree size and the need for extra gear to attach to the tree prior to entering and exiting the stand (which I began doing after mucho years ignoring this) and blah blah blah.
I had the rock harness in the back of my mind and had started experimenting, but I figured why be a pioneer? Try the type of harness everyone else is using. Well, I hated the TMA back tether from Day 1, and the weight and bulkiness of the whole rig, and never got over it. Even after finding a relatively light harness (which Muddy ripped off and is still selling), that damn tether made so many things more difficult than they had to be, including wearing a cowboy hat, LOL. I gave it several years and several experiments but finally decided there was no fixing a train wreck. I can't imagine going back to a TMA harness now, after a couple of years of using the rock harness exclusively.
[QUOTE=bluecat;26385]I didn't think it was too much to ask manufacturers to provide a metal loop on each side of a belt so it could double as a linesman belt. I currently have this on my harness (Seat of the Pants). Don't know if it is still made but very nice feature.
As you understand deer gear can rather cumbersome. A one-size-fits-all solution is nice because lets say I want to move my stand on a whim one day after sitting for a couple of hours. Did I remember to bring the particular harness to move the stand? I'm more of a "tool for every job" kinda guy but sometimes you need a multitasker. [/QUOTE]
[B]I think most TMA harnesses have these loops standard, and I agree it's a no-brainer. But you can add loops to the rock harness, so there's no downside. There's nothing a "hunter's harness" can do that you can't make a rock harness do, except hang you behind your head between your shoulders and kill you by suspension trauma.
[/B]And I will say, the stuff for tree climbing that we get sold as hunters is extremely rinky-dink compared to what's available to recreational or professional climbers and tree guys. And we pay out the nose for it, too.
[QUOTE=bluecat;26385]The thing that is most attractive (I think I'm understanding your system) about your system is the fact that I'm not trying to shoot around a tether when I shoot at a particular angle.[/QUOTE]
Well, don't forget that you can go back to wearing a cowboy hat in the stand, too...:grin:
I spend a lot of time in trees, just thinking. :wink
Rock climbing is pretty big around here with the mountains relatively close. And of course nowadays lots of places have climbing walls. I really started fiddling with this around 2002 when I took my then-honey to the state NWTF banquet in Charlotte at Bass Pro. She did the rock climbing wall and shot bows while I spent most of the time in a tow truck and auto repair waiting area fixing her car for her (It went paws up as soon as we arrived at the hotel the first night.)
Anyhoo, I got to see some of the rock climbing (which she loved) and the gear, and the wheels started spinning, accelerated by the fact that she wanted to sit in treestands every once in a while and I wasn't willing to let her do some of the stuff I was willing and accustomed to doing myself at that point (safety-defying stuff, is what I mean). Watching her climb in and out of stands without being secured to the tree scared the $#!+ out of me, but that's what I was doing at the time, as well. So I started coming up with some stuff more for her than for me, but now that I have a few more years on me my stomach gets flippy when I think about the way I used to do things myself. :jd:
I got into 4-point TMA harnesses reluctantly (though I made her use one) several years afterwards. I had a belt system I liked (Silent Slide) but there were various issues including a limited usable tree size and the need for extra gear to attach to the tree prior to entering and exiting the stand (which I began doing after mucho years ignoring this) and blah blah blah.
I had the rock harness in the back of my mind and had started experimenting, but I figured why be a pioneer? Try the type of harness everyone else is using. Well, I hated the TMA back tether from Day 1, and the weight and bulkiness of the whole rig, and never got over it. Even after finding a relatively light harness (which Muddy ripped off and is still selling), that damn tether made so many things more difficult than they had to be, including wearing a cowboy hat, LOL. I gave it several years and several experiments but finally decided there was no fixing a train wreck. I can't imagine going back to a TMA harness now, after a couple of years of using the rock harness exclusively.
[QUOTE=bluecat;26385]I didn't think it was too much to ask manufacturers to provide a metal loop on each side of a belt so it could double as a linesman belt. I currently have this on my harness (Seat of the Pants). Don't know if it is still made but very nice feature.
As you understand deer gear can rather cumbersome. A one-size-fits-all solution is nice because lets say I want to move my stand on a whim one day after sitting for a couple of hours. Did I remember to bring the particular harness to move the stand? I'm more of a "tool for every job" kinda guy but sometimes you need a multitasker. [/QUOTE]
[B]I think most TMA harnesses have these loops standard, and I agree it's a no-brainer. But you can add loops to the rock harness, so there's no downside. There's nothing a "hunter's harness" can do that you can't make a rock harness do, except hang you behind your head between your shoulders and kill you by suspension trauma.
[/B]And I will say, the stuff for tree climbing that we get sold as hunters is extremely rinky-dink compared to what's available to recreational or professional climbers and tree guys. And we pay out the nose for it, too.
[QUOTE=bluecat;26385]The thing that is most attractive (I think I'm understanding your system) about your system is the fact that I'm not trying to shoot around a tether when I shoot at a particular angle.[/QUOTE]
Well, don't forget that you can go back to wearing a cowboy hat in the stand, too...:grin:
48.) Hunter - 10/08/2014
Good stuff, Swampy! Thanks! :wave:
49.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
Do you have a picture of you or someone else with this gear on and tethered to a tree?
I'm starting to drink the Kool-Aid.
I'm starting to drink the Kool-Aid.
50.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
LOL...I'll see what I can do. I'll need one of my partners in crime at Camp Swampy to snap me, so it might take a few days or more. Not sure I have the patience to try self-timed shutter delay myself today, LOL.
I'll see if I can find something else in the meantime; this is becoming more mainstream as time goes by.
I'll see if I can find something else in the meantime; this is becoming more mainstream as time goes by.
51.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
If you fell in your harness system, wouldn't you be upside down where a back tether would keep you upright?
52.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
Hook up Mr. Pounce.
53.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
LOL...No, the point is that you will NOT go upside down. And you will be facing the tree, which you almost never will be initially with a back tether. Think about it. Also, you can look at videos of (tethered) rock climbing falls.
And watch this video to see how you hang in a rock harness...
Okay, while you all are waiting for me to do my own modeling, you can get the general idea of harness and hook-up to the tree from this video. Plus an idea of how to burn calories and build muscles and knee strength using one climbing stick and a loop runner or strap/ tubular webbing to ascend as high as you want. :wink
I'm not saying this is ideal in hot weather or with bad knees, but it does illustrate how you can use a rock harness in the actual climb and to do work.
(By the way, there are a couple of ways to add TWO steps to a stick, but unless there's a lot of demand for that idea I'm just gonna throw that statement out there and let it sink in. Bluecat might enjoy one of them because it involves braiding paracord.:wink)
Okay, so note this guy already has his harness on. You can see it when he takes his gear off his back. He puts his climbing stick on the tree and steps into a loop runner used as a (new, add-on) bottom step. He climbs to the top of the climbing stick and attaches a standard tree tether. Then he attaches his rock harness to the tree tether at his front and drops down to retrieve his stick and move it up higher on the tree. Climbs to the top of the stick again, moves his tree tether up...rinse and repeat. You will see how he is able to hang from his rock harness, facing the tree, and get his work done.
And watch this video to see how you hang in a rock harness...
Okay, while you all are waiting for me to do my own modeling, you can get the general idea of harness and hook-up to the tree from this video. Plus an idea of how to burn calories and build muscles and knee strength using one climbing stick and a loop runner or strap/ tubular webbing to ascend as high as you want. :wink
I'm not saying this is ideal in hot weather or with bad knees, but it does illustrate how you can use a rock harness in the actual climb and to do work.
(By the way, there are a couple of ways to add TWO steps to a stick, but unless there's a lot of demand for that idea I'm just gonna throw that statement out there and let it sink in. Bluecat might enjoy one of them because it involves braiding paracord.:wink)
Okay, so note this guy already has his harness on. You can see it when he takes his gear off his back. He puts his climbing stick on the tree and steps into a loop runner used as a (new, add-on) bottom step. He climbs to the top of the climbing stick and attaches a standard tree tether. Then he attaches his rock harness to the tree tether at his front and drops down to retrieve his stick and move it up higher on the tree. Climbs to the top of the stick again, moves his tree tether up...rinse and repeat. You will see how he is able to hang from his rock harness, facing the tree, and get his work done.
54.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
[QUOTE=bluecat;26392]If you fell in your harness system, wouldn't you be upside down where a back tether would keep you upright?[/QUOTE]
Here are some more videos for your viewing pleasure. The guy in the first video would fall less far if he moved his tree tether up a few feet. Higher placement doesn't interfere with me, but he says in the comments it interferes with him. From experience, I don't know how that can be. Possibly the lengths of our daisy chains/connection to the harness are different.
Here are some more videos for your viewing pleasure. The guy in the first video would fall less far if he moved his tree tether up a few feet. Higher placement doesn't interfere with me, but he says in the comments it interferes with him. From experience, I don't know how that can be. Possibly the lengths of our daisy chains/connection to the harness are different.
55.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
Extreme falls...some appropriately extreme language...:wink
Pretty cool video...Some harnessed, others not, LOL
Pretty cool video...Some harnessed, others not, LOL
56.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
Sweet! Thanks Swampy. I get it now. You've convinced me.
57.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
Well, whatever makes you happy...Plus you might meet some hippy chicks at REI...
:grin:
:grin:
58.) Swamp Fox - 10/08/2014
Actually, the chicks at REI tend not to be too hippy...They're in good shape, generally...
Now, HIPPIE, that's another story...:-)
Now, HIPPIE, that's another story...:-)
59.) bluecat - 10/08/2014
:wink
60.) luv2bowhunt - 10/09/2014
I can't see any of the videos without a massive amount of setting changes, but from what I'm reading, sounds like a bunch of extra ropes, knots, and do hickies. What are you trying to gain from all these changes?
Losing weight, more freedom of movement, increased safety?
I'm using a super thin/light Muddy Outdoors harness, I don't even notice it. Can't imagine what advantage there is in what you're describing, unless the videos are showing me something I'm not getting.
Losing weight, more freedom of movement, increased safety?
I'm using a super thin/light Muddy Outdoors harness, I don't even notice it. Can't imagine what advantage there is in what you're describing, unless the videos are showing me something I'm not getting.
61.) Swamp Fox - 10/09/2014
The Muddy harness is a rip-off of one that Loggy Bayou used to sell, which was the 4-pt I eventually settled on. It is an excellent harness as far as TMA harnesses go, or I wouldn't have used it/the concept. :-) Muddy even lightened it a bit.
[B]A TMA harness uses a back tether. A rock harness uses a daisy chain or rope tether. So no extra gear or weight there.
I used two carabiners on my back tether. I use two carabiners on my daisy chain. So no extra gear or weight there.
A TMA harness uses a tree tether. I use the same tree tether for my rock harness. So no extra gear or weight there.
A TMA harness can range from very heavy and bulky to somewhat heavy and bulky compared to a rock climbing harness. There is a significant weight savings here, not to mention the easier packability.
The only piece of gear that I use that might be somewhat foreign or "extra" to most of us is a loop runner or two, which weigh close to nothing. If people use any type of gear to secure their climb or to swing aboard the stand, the loop runner is the equivalent. So no extra gear or weight there.
[/B]
[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]I haven't had the rock harness rig cause an issue with mobility in the stand or with shooting yet. I have three or four full or nearly-full seasons with it so far, I think, counting the one we're in. I used to have my TMA harness get in the way/cause problems all the time.
[/COLOR][/B]
All that aside, I think [B]the rock harness has a significant advantage in self-rescue[/B]. I started hunting out of trees in the early mid-70's. I haven't fallen out of one yet. Rock climbers fall all the time, and from far worse places than we ever will. Their gear is made for mobility, light weight and safety. It would be worth a peek at the videos if you can find a few minutes.
I've labored over self-rescue quite a lot over the years: gave it much thought. I packed knives, leg loops (to avoid suspension trauma or to act as steps/foot loops), extra treesteps and eventually even broke down and started carrying a cell phone more often so that when I was left dangling by a strap behind my shoulders with no one around I wouldn't be completely SOL. [B]Self-rescue is much less complicated and more assured (with less gear) when you are tethered in the front to a harness you can sit in, vs. tethered behind you in a harness that makes you dangle.[/B]
[B]A TMA harness uses a back tether. A rock harness uses a daisy chain or rope tether. So no extra gear or weight there.
I used two carabiners on my back tether. I use two carabiners on my daisy chain. So no extra gear or weight there.
A TMA harness uses a tree tether. I use the same tree tether for my rock harness. So no extra gear or weight there.
A TMA harness can range from very heavy and bulky to somewhat heavy and bulky compared to a rock climbing harness. There is a significant weight savings here, not to mention the easier packability.
The only piece of gear that I use that might be somewhat foreign or "extra" to most of us is a loop runner or two, which weigh close to nothing. If people use any type of gear to secure their climb or to swing aboard the stand, the loop runner is the equivalent. So no extra gear or weight there.
[/B]
[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]I haven't had the rock harness rig cause an issue with mobility in the stand or with shooting yet. I have three or four full or nearly-full seasons with it so far, I think, counting the one we're in. I used to have my TMA harness get in the way/cause problems all the time.
[/COLOR][/B]
All that aside, I think [B]the rock harness has a significant advantage in self-rescue[/B]. I started hunting out of trees in the early mid-70's. I haven't fallen out of one yet. Rock climbers fall all the time, and from far worse places than we ever will. Their gear is made for mobility, light weight and safety. It would be worth a peek at the videos if you can find a few minutes.
I've labored over self-rescue quite a lot over the years: gave it much thought. I packed knives, leg loops (to avoid suspension trauma or to act as steps/foot loops), extra treesteps and eventually even broke down and started carrying a cell phone more often so that when I was left dangling by a strap behind my shoulders with no one around I wouldn't be completely SOL. [B]Self-rescue is much less complicated and more assured (with less gear) when you are tethered in the front to a harness you can sit in, vs. tethered behind you in a harness that makes you dangle.[/B]
62.) Swamp Fox - 10/09/2014
[QUOTE=luv2bowhunt;26413]Congrats Dave! You should come on here more often........place is like a grave yard in the middle of a blizzard most days.
Swamp Fox is constantly trying to invent things to talk about...........pretty pathetic really.:-)[/QUOTE]
Oh, sure!...I see how it is...Come on here, ignore the videos, post a drive-by comment and bug out...
We're all here to learn, right?
:p
Swamp Fox is constantly trying to invent things to talk about...........pretty pathetic really.:-)[/QUOTE]
Oh, sure!...I see how it is...Come on here, ignore the videos, post a drive-by comment and bug out...
We're all here to learn, right?
:p
63.) luv2bowhunt - 10/09/2014
When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll change all settings and look at the pics and video. Trust me, you will still be wrong on this afterwards.:wink
I'm leaving here at 2:00PM to go hunting for the first time this year. First time in a tree since my ACL surgery. I am stoked ready to go, but will descend tree like a 3 toed sloth. :tu:
I'm leaving here at 2:00PM to go hunting for the first time this year. First time in a tree since my ACL surgery. I am stoked ready to go, but will descend tree like a 3 toed sloth. :tu:
64.) Swamp Fox - 10/09/2014
LOL...I see the resemblance!
Good luck! :tu:
Good luck! :tu:
65.) luv2bowhunt - 10/10/2014
Hunt uneventful, descent successful. I lived to hunt another day, even with my crappy old harness.:wink
66.) Swamp Fox - 10/10/2014
Naw, the Muddy harness is one of the best of its type.
Whatever floats your boat.
Haven't tried or even handled the Spyder or whatever it's called. I guess that's the one that leads in the light weight category, but I haven't really been paying attention. Also was never interested in whatever system integrates with a jacket and runs the back tether up through the jacket material, though I can see how some people would like it.
If people are familiar with Tree Saddles, Ambush Slings, Guido's Slings, etc. or even with the newer-and-now-out-of-business 20 Feet Up harness, the whole idea of being attached somewhere other than between your shoulders will seem less exotic...FWIW.
If we're running out of gas on the topic of harnesses, I would like to bring my previous question regarding putting out scent up for consideration again.
Whatever floats your boat.
Haven't tried or even handled the Spyder or whatever it's called. I guess that's the one that leads in the light weight category, but I haven't really been paying attention. Also was never interested in whatever system integrates with a jacket and runs the back tether up through the jacket material, though I can see how some people would like it.
If people are familiar with Tree Saddles, Ambush Slings, Guido's Slings, etc. or even with the newer-and-now-out-of-business 20 Feet Up harness, the whole idea of being attached somewhere other than between your shoulders will seem less exotic...FWIW.
If we're running out of gas on the topic of harnesses, I would like to bring my previous question regarding putting out scent up for consideration again.