HuntingCountry.com

1.) DParker - 07/25/2014

Call me an incurable skeptic, but I'm not buying the claims.

[URL="http://www.huntingrevolution.com/"]http://www.huntingrevolution.com/[/URL]

[URL="http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/5/8/invention_to_add_to_.html"]http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/5/8/invention_to_add_to_.html[/URL]

[video=youtube_share;s3igGilMgEI]http://youtu.be/s3igGilMgEI[/video]

{Continued in next post because I can only embed one video at a time...}

2.) DParker - 07/25/2014

Even forgetting the fact that the animation in the video above shows the arrow being made to spin in the same direction both when the plunger is being depressed [I]and[/I] when it's expanding (which is not how it behaves), I don't see this imparting any extra spin to the arrow before it leaves the string. For starters, I would think that even with a spring-loaded plunger, the nock is going to be held in the fully-depressed position by the acceleration force of the string pushing the plunger into the arrow shaft. The plunger probably isn't going to be able to expand until the string decelerates, at which point the nock might get the shaft off to a slightly better start on rotation, but I have my doubts that it would be enough to make any real difference. And in fact, a close frame-by-frame examination of the 2nd video...

[video=youtube_share;qWQU78HDkGk]http://youtu.be/qWQU78HDkGk[/video]

...suggests that I'm right. Starting at the 1:38 mark is some slo-mo footage of the nock in use. Viewing it frame-by-frame it seems to me that:

1) The design of the plunger is at odds with the angle of the fletching. When it's depressed it spins the arrow in sync with the angle of the fletching, but stops and reverses itself retrograde to the spin imparted by the fletching when the string ceases its forward motion and the nock plunger begins to expand, and the arrow begins to spin back the other direction (with the fletching) again shortly after leaving the spring.

2) Even if the nock spun in the correct direction (relative to the fletching angle) when expanding, that doesn't happen early enough before leaving the string to matter.

So in the video the effect of the nock is to begin spinning the arrow in the correct direction, but then stop that correct spinning just before leaving the string and starting the arrow spinning in the wrong direction...which is then immediately overcome by the fletching, which begins the arrow spinning in the correct direction again, just like it would with a regular nock anyway.

But I could be wrong.

3.) bluecat - 07/25/2014

Look at the first video with the demonstration. You have a left helical arrow being made to go right. Some one didn't catch that.

4.) Wild Bob - 07/25/2014

I'd like to get the run down on this from a physicist... I see a number of forces at play here.

Hey I got an idea! Let's get a write up on it by the guy that knows so much about unusually powerful rifles. :re:

5.) bluecat - 07/25/2014

Do you think that maybe the graphics are just wrong and the plunger would actually spin the arrow in the direction of the fletching? Hard to say.

I see what you are talking about - spinning the arrow to the right with left helical fletching. Makes no sense.

6.) bluecat - 07/25/2014

I wonder how much they weigh?

I won't be buying these anytime soon. More things to go wrong.

7.) Swamp Fox - 07/25/2014

The lighted nock seems quite heavy...40 grains if I heard correctly in the video.

Sounds like something you need to match all your equipment up with (rest, broadhead, arrow length) so it's not just a grab-it-off-the-shelf purchase.

Also, I wonder if you run into some extra bow tuning challenges. With all the rotation (whether DParker is seeing things or not---haven't investigated for myself) on top of normal arrow flex (are we buying the idea that rotation minimizes flex?) that's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on.

Some of the Ohio guys know this feller...GoBucks in particular if memory serves...

8.) Deerminator - 07/25/2014

crazy stuff

9.) Triton Rich - 07/25/2014

[B]You combine this thing with some aerovanes (installed with a laser guided fletching jig of course) and you pretty much have the ultimate arrow guidance solution! :wink[/B]

10.) Deerminator - 07/25/2014

Betchya i know whats coming next.
the old S.G.P.T.A.S.
.satellite global positioning target acquisition system--- yes chips in the broadhead,and a laser pointer pen

11.) Dan-o - 07/25/2014

Garbage.

12.) Swamp Fox - 07/25/2014

Garbage as in it falls apart, is a PITA, etc., or garbage as in it doesn't do what it says it's supposed to do?

13.) DParker - 07/25/2014

OK, so I've watched the aforementioned part of the video a few more times, capturing some more still frames for comparison...and I think I might be wrong about how the thing works, even if not wrong about its effectiveness. The images are really grainy (480p resolution? Really?), but now I think that when the plunger opens back up as the nock is released from the string it doesn't actually engage the rest of the nock, and does NOT act to reverse the spin of the arrow. But for some reason it looks to me like the spin that was imparted from the beginning more-or-less stops at that point anyway, only to pick back up when the arrow is free and the vanes begin imparting their own spin.

What's needed is an arrow with a highly visible mark on the shaft and some high-speed camera footage, captured with both a conventional nock and a "Twister Nock" so that the rotational rates can be compared.

14.) Triton Rich - 07/25/2014

[B]Just looking at the video, I would imagine that it imparts some spin imediately but as soon as the plunger bottoms out, the arrow spin would very likely come to a complete stop due to the friction between the nock and arrow with the string pushing hard against it. It would then release just like a normal nock. Even if it does work at all, the effect couldn't possibly be positive enough to risk the moving parts failing at a critical time. One of the dumbest ideas I've seen in a long time![/B]

15.) DParker - 07/25/2014

[Quote]the arrow spin would very likely come to a complete stop due to the friction between the nock and arrow with the string pushing hard against it.[/quote]

That's a good point, and may well account for what I'm seeing...or at least what I think I'm seeing.

16.) Floyd - 07/26/2014

You old fogies need to keep up with the times.

17.) Floyd - 07/26/2014

Risk at a critical time.

One of the reason Swampy doesn't date anymore.

Why moms say to wear clean underwear or risk the emergency room people saying something at a critical time.

Surgeon: What did your friend do to chart his underwear?
Friend: Nothing. Must be old chart stains from way back. So Doc, what are we going to do about the arrow?
Surgeon: What arrow? Old stains? You sure?

18.) Triton Rich - 07/26/2014

[B]I've now had a chance to see the video evidence. The nock appears to work exactly as I expected. It spins for a bit then stops suddenly and releases like a normal arrow. It also sounded to me (could just be my prejudice against this product) that there is extra noise on the release. The one thing that I do find very interesting and possibly of some use is that the nock somehow clips on to the string mechanically and then lets go and releases without friction. Now THAT I could get behind. Probably a free 5-6 fps right there![/B]

19.) Swamp Fox - 07/26/2014

[QUOTE=Dan-o;22477]Garbage.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;22478]Garbage as in it falls apart, is a PITA, etc., or garbage as in it doesn't do what it says it's supposed to do?[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=3][COLOR="#0000FF"]{CRICKETS}[/COLOR][/SIZE]

I think we lost Dan-o...

If anyone sees him, tell him to call home.

20.) Dan-o - 07/27/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;22508][SIZE=3][COLOR="#0000FF"]{CRICKETS}[/COLOR][/SIZE]

I think we lost Dan-o...

If anyone sees him, tell him to call home.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Buddy, tied up tuning and shooting bows all day.

Garbage as in it's a gimmick that solves a problem that doesn't exist. Preys on those that overthink things or that are willing to spend a few extra bucks seeking shortcuts instead of practicing. Snake oil!

21.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

i think if they would put a stiffer spring inside there and file about a 16th with a no. 10 mill file off the upper end of the nock, they may have something..

22.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

now what did I do with my no. 10 mill file?????

23.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

I learned that from fred bear ..he used a 10 mil file to sharpen his broadheads...i actually bought a pack of bear razorheads and a 10 mil file just to see if I could sharpen them.. out of the package they were kinda sharp....after I smooth through them with a 10 mil file..i ruined a pak of bear razorheads ..I couldn't cut hot butter with them.. I took the edge right off of them..

24.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

you no ..fred bear the archer??? he went to high school, with billy.... man you guys are slow..

25.) Floyd - 07/27/2014

Hey CE, you think knowing how to us a 10 mil file would have helped?

But, I think I know what you mean CE.

26.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

just because his name is fred bear doesn't mean he knows how to use a 10 mil file...they thought I knew how to run the meat slicer at the packing house..and now I got 4 freakin fingers..

27.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

sure its funny and all.. but.youre pinky finger has a lot of uses...

28.) Floyd - 07/27/2014

....wow, you're just hell on your meat.

29.) Floyd - 07/27/2014

...like the time you jumped off the roof with your mom's favorite table cloth because you were pretending to be a paratrooper and got wind knocked out of you.

30.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

it happens in a second Floyd...youre pinky finger there and then its gone.. I always preach safty to the new guys..

31.) Hunter - 07/27/2014

CE, you should write a book about all your life experiences!! It would be a best seller! :tu:

32.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

roofing is like the deadlist catch..theres no winners we just don't get the fame as those punk crab fishermen..

33.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

captain keith......he wouldn't last 10 minutes with me on the roof.. trust me that's a fact..

34.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

I don't no what my anger is with captain keith..but if he ever pointed his finger at me and told me to get out of the wheel house.. I would kick him in the nuts and slap him in the head and tell him this is my ship!!!

35.) Swamp Fox - 07/27/2014

Stop! Stop! Yer kiillin' me here!!!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

36.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

we would get some crab fishing done like its suppose to be...

37.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

freakin captain keith....who does he think he is.. why did Floyd even mention him...

38.) Swamp Fox - 07/27/2014

Floyd likes to stir the crab pot...

39.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

freakin Floyd...

40.) Hunter - 07/27/2014

Captain Keith seems to have a hair trigger..............

[video=youtube;q5ZLLqTqbE0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ZLLqTqbE0[/video]

41.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

I would have kick his ass right then and now....he touches me like that he would been missing a couple teeth....i challege him like luv 2 challenges the drury brothers..

42.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

he';s a freakin bully..

43.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

whats long and hard a new polish bride gets on her wedding night?

a new name..

44.) Swamp Fox - 07/27/2014

LOL...

That's one of my favorites.

45.) Floyd - 07/27/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;22536]Floyd likes to stir the crab pot...[/QUOTE]

You have been a crab lately; needing to be stirred.

Speaking of a pot needing to be stirred and "twisted nocks", were are you in the contest? Let's just have two teams, and you and Crookedeye can pick your teams from forum members.

46.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

how did I get involved in this?? I mean i'm always open to win.. who's that new kid that just joined.. its going to be me him and that other fella..

47.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

and we will kick ass.. don't make me break out my polish jokes...

48.) crookedeye - 07/27/2014

did you here about the great polish inventer alexzander smirt somadowski? he invented the telephone pole..

49.) Deerminator - 07/27/2014

:cf::tu:

50.) bluecat - 07/28/2014

[QUOTE=DParker;22491]

What's needed is an arrow with a highly visible mark on the shaft and some high-speed camera footage, captured with both a conventional nock and a "Twister Nock" so that the rotational rates can be compared.[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't want science to get in the way of a good thing would you? Just look at all the bulls eyes the guy is shooting. It must be working right?

51.) Floyd - 07/28/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;22567]You wouldn't want science to get in the way of a good thing would you? Just look at all the bulls eyes the guy is shooting. It must be working right?[/QUOTE]

Let science get in the way? Sure. No one really believes in magic...... do you believe in magic in a young girl's heart....

Naysayers or going to nay say. History is riddled with the crap. Please don't stop though. It's fun to read the comments.

"Snake Oil", now that's an interesting coined phrase.

'Snake Oil - "Made from the oil of the Chinese water snake, which is rich in the omega-3 acids that help reduce inflammation, snake oil in its original form really was effective, especially when used to treat arthritis and bursitis. The workers would rub the oil, used for centuries in China, on their joints after a long hard day at work. The story goes that the Chinese workers began sharing the oil with some American counterparts, who marveled at the effects."' Excerpt from A History Of 'Snake Oil Salesmen' by LAKSHMI GANDHI an NPR article.

Of course Americans purposely made their own "Snake Oil", which contained no snake oil at all. You know, to take advantage of the success of the "Real McCoy". Or, Real MacKay, if you prefer.

Then again, some unsuccessful ventures, like the "Flying Machine", have proven over time.

Pooh-poohing stuff is fun though. It's fun to take "Potshots". To turn another phrase. (Which I just did, hehehehe, bahahahaha)

:-)

52.) Ventilator - 07/28/2014

I doubt Dan-O really cares that you defined his "Snake Oil" statement. I think his point was very clear in the first place.

Thanks tho, im sure somebody cares. :tu:

53.) Ventilator - 07/28/2014

[QUOTE=crookedeye;22552]did you here about the great polish inventer alexzander smirt somadowski? he invented the telephone pole..[/QUOTE]

u got me on this one CE...duhhhhh?????
:-)

54.) Floyd - 07/28/2014

[QUOTE=Ventilator;22578]I doubt Dan-O really cares that you defined his "Snake Oil" statement. I think his point was very clear in the first place.

Thanks tho, im sure somebody cares. :tu:[/QUOTE]

Thanks for carrying enough to say something. :tu: AND thanks for the "potshot". :applause: Saying anything means a great deal; considering your response still shows your disdain and contemptuous nature still exist. :cool:

Specially since I was talking about "Snake Oil" in general. Making a point that "Snake Oil" was in fact a genuine remedy from the Chinese. Which you seemed to dismissed or didn't care to even understand one iota. OR even the next sentence after that; let time and/or the market prove it or bury it. :poke:

I don't give a ratsass if the product proves good, bad or indifferent. :laugh:

55.) Dan-o - 07/28/2014

Boy, this thread really went off course. I guess I would be an idiot if I were surprised!

56.) DParker - 07/28/2014

[QUOTE=Dan-o;22597]Boy, this thread really went off course. I guess I would be an idiot if I were surprised![/QUOTE]

Well, out of 52 posts (prior to yours above) in a non-Podunk thread we did manage to get about a dozen (~23%!) that weren't idle chatter and/or petty bickering...so I guess that's something.

57.) Swamp Fox - 07/28/2014

:grin:

You can't touch that!

:grin:

58.) Swamp Fox - 07/28/2014

I think we could get this thread to 100 if we really tried...

59.) Swamp Fox - 07/28/2014

But I'm an incurable optimist anyway...

60.) bluecat - 07/29/2014

Did you hear the one about the horse that walks into a bar...

61.) Swamp Fox - 07/29/2014

Is this the one where he leaves his Injun outside?

62.) Swamp Fox - 07/29/2014

The Lone Ranger and Tonto walk into a bar and sit down to drink a beer. After a few minutes, a big tall cowboy walks in and says, "Who owns the big white horse outside?" The Lone Ranger stands up, hitches his gunbelt, and says, "I do. Why?"

The cowboy squints at the Lone Ranger and says, "I just thought you'd want to know your horse is just about dead!" The Lone Ranger and Tonto rush outside and, sure enough, Silver is about to keel over from heat exhaustion. The Lone Ranger gets him some water, and soon Silver is starting to feel a little better.

The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says, "Tonto, I want you to run around and around Silver and see if you can create enough of a breeze to cool him down."

Tonto says, "Sure, Kemosabe," and starts running circles around Silver. Not able to do anything else but wait, the Lone Ranger goes back to the bar to finish his drink.

A little while later, another cowboy struts into the bar and loudly asks, "Who owns that big white horse outside?"

The Lone Ranger stands again and says, "I do. What's wrong with him this time?"

The cowboy says to him, "Nothing I know of...I just wanted to let you know you left your Injun running."

63.) bluecat - 07/29/2014

:re:

I hate when that happens.

64.) Jon - 07/29/2014

I'm absolutely with Dan-o, this is a non-needed gimmick and serves no positive use in archery. Beside that, claiming that it could assist spinning your arrow at 8000 RPM is utter craziness, borderline criminal douchebaggery.
Can you imagine the noise from an arrow that was forced to spin faster that the vanes wanted to spin on their own? Picture a propeller slapping the wind. Vanes are rotated by the air, not vice versa.

65.) Hunter - 07/29/2014

:bang:

66.) Hunter - 07/29/2014

67.) Hunter - 07/29/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;22631]The Lone Ranger and Tonto walk into a bar and sit down to drink a beer. After a few minutes, a big tall cowboy walks in and says, "Who owns the big white horse outside?" The Lone Ranger stands up, hitches his gunbelt, and says, "I do. Why?"

The cowboy squints at the Lone Ranger and says, "I just thought you'd want to know your horse is just about dead!" The Lone Ranger and Tonto rush outside and, sure enough, Silver is about to keel over from heat exhaustion. The Lone Ranger gets him some water, and soon Silver is starting to feel a little better.

The Lone Ranger turns to Tonto and says, "Tonto, I want you to run around and around Silver and see if you can create enough of a breeze to cool him down."

Tonto says, "Sure, Kemosabe," and starts running circles around Silver. Not able to do anything else but wait, the Lone Ranger goes back to the bar to finish his drink.

A little while later, another cowboy struts into the bar and loudly asks, "Who owns that big white horse outside?"

The Lone Ranger stands again and says, "I do. What's wrong with him this time?"

The cowboy says to him, "Nothing I know of...I just wanted to let you know you left your Injun running."[/QUOTE]

:bang:

68.) Swamp Fox - 07/29/2014

:-)

Can't believe y'all have never heard that joke before, LOL...

69.) Fairchase - 10/28/2014

[QUOTE=Jon;22633]I'm absolutely with Dan-o, this is a non-needed gimmick and serves no positive use in archery. Beside that, claiming that it could assist spinning your arrow at 8000 RPM is utter craziness, borderline criminal douchebaggery.
Can you imagine the noise from an arrow that was forced to spin faster that the vanes wanted to spin on their own? Picture a propeller slapping the wind. Vanes are rotated by the air, not vice versa.[/QUOTE]

8000 RPM is only 134 revolution per second. Considering the arrow travels at let say, 300 fps that is only one revolution for every 2.25 ft of travel. Is that too much?
I have seen some fake animated commercial that claim more than that.
It is a shame that there is a lot of gimmicks and misinformation out there, but every now and then there is a product that does what it claims.
TwisterNock used with an arrow with right helical fletching is much quieter than same arrow with regular nock. You are not using air drag to generate rotation.
The rotation is relevant to the speed of the arrow and the helical fletching actually cut through the air easier. That is why TwisterNock keeps the speed higher down range and hits higher than regular nock.

70.) Deerminator - 10/28/2014

71.) Deerminator - 10/28/2014

[I] still like the rocket motor idea or a ram jet engine:-)[/I]

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