1.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

After my last trip to Nebraska, I've come to finally think that decoy realism may play a bigger part to turkey hunting than what I was willing to believe. There were several times we called toms from distances of 200 to 500 yards who came willingly to our setup...right up until they could actually see the decoy(s). On those occasions you could watch them abruptly stop turn around and leave. We went from 2 hen decoys, to a jake next to a breeding hen (decoy on the ground and low in breeding position), to one breeding hen. We even tried no decoys but didn't get a chance to test that theory as we didn't see any birds for that setup.

The decoys we were using were Carrylight polyethylene and the old feather flex style. Neither of which are super-realistic (in today's standards). I have some Avian X decoys (very realistic) but left them at home as they are kind of heavy. I have a hard time thinking these birds had been hunted and educated on decoys. Are turkeys becoming more discriminating? In all instances, the blind was well tucked into cedars and when necessary, brushed in.

It seems to be a judgement game as to whether you put a jake out. You run the risk of running off birds that don't want to fight (not necessarily a small subdominate bird).

Motion is another factor that may make up for decoy realism.

I'm considering only using a single decoy (Dave Smith breeding hen, Avian X doesn't make a breeding hen) in the future or eliminate decoys altogether. I want to attract the majority of birds without having them shy from confrontation. I've just called too many birds in only to watch them leave. I want to turn a called bird into a success. I'm thinking less is more.

Who has used the Avian X or Dave Smith decoys? Ventilator, I seem to recall you have some experience with the Dave Smith decoys?

2.) Deerminator - 05/09/2014

For the breading hen set up we put a jake on top of her.

I like the no decoy set up cause when they step around a cornner or from behind a tree,

[B][SIZE=7]BLAMO!!![/SIZE] [/B]

3.) Ar-mink - 05/09/2014

I haven't used either of those decoys, but I can tell you what has work for me. I've used the Primos B-mobile and she-mobile with a lot of success over the last 5 years. I use a real fan on the tom decoy. I've tried a couple different fans on it and have had the best success with a small tathered fan. I usually place the tom 10 - 15 yds in front of me quartering to me. Then the hen goes 3-6 ft directly in front of him. I know with a tom decoy you are taking the chance of "scaring" off a tom, but more often than not when a tom sees this they would atleast come in close to take a look.

4.) Deerminator - 05/09/2014

Also this late in the breeding season if the hens arn't running to the Toms the Toms take off and go some place else.

5.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

playing hard to get eh?

6.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

Realism? I'm going in the opposite direction: I'm using the Funky Chicken. :wink

No, not really. I thought I ordered one this year, but apparently not. Spent half a day looking for it and then I looked up my order history, LOL. I'll try it next year, though, for sure, assuming I can survive this dementia.

I've used the Avian X and there's a realistic hen on the list for next year because I need a hollow body in a particular pose, but I can't remember what I picked out.

I don't see the need to spend the kind of money some "realism" decoys command. I'd put movement in my decoy set before I worried too much about ultra-realistic appearance. I still have some of the old dekes and yes, they look goofy compared to the decoys of today, but it didn't stop me from killing my share of gobblers over them. One of my favorite set of dekes are some umbrella decoys I've had for probably 20 years, and if anything looks less realistic than an old Flambeau or Carrylite, it's them. They still fool turkeys, though.

Time of year and turkey temperament have a lot to do with decoy-shyness, I think. Some toms just won't interact with hens for a variety of reasons unrelated to hunting pressure. I know it's hard to believe, but sit out with no dekes in a large open area where you can watch birds and soon enough you'll see hens and toms that ignore each other [I]during hunting season[/I]. I think this is mostly a late season thing (post breeding), if you ignore the majority of the year when they act that way as well. :-)

7.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

Swampy, tell me what the toms who traveled 500 yards were expecting to find when they got within 20 yards of our calling, came through the cedars and saw a hen decoy and then bolted.

I just keep scratching my head. "What did you think you'd find Mister?"

8.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

BTW, my experience is that turkeys ignore the blind, even if it's in the wide open. If you have a spot that you can't tuck it in or it would be nice if the blind could be right [I]here[/I], I wouldn't hesitate to just pop it up and start calling. I like to put them on the end of points or in the middle of pinch points (which assures shorter shots).

9.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19560]Swampy, tell me what the toms who traveled 500 yards were expecting to find when they got within 20 yards of our calling, came through the cedars and saw a hen decoy and then bolted.

I just keep scratching my head. "What did you think you'd find Mister?"[/QUOTE]

Movement?

Home cooking?

A better personality?

10.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19561]BTW, my experience is that turkeys ignore the blind, even if it's in the wide open. If you have a spot that you can't tuck it in or it would be nice if the blind could be right [I]here[/I], I wouldn't hesitate to just pop it up and start calling. I like to put them on the end of points or in the middle of pinch points (which assures shorter shots).[/QUOTE]

I know, I know. Just can't bring myself to try it.

11.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

I think that if a turkey has a long look at a still decoy it is going to suspect something is up. So we were throwing some ideas around of a little device you can put in the body of your existing decoy, activate/deactivate it from the blind and it vibrates.

12.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19562]

A better personality?[/QUOTE]

Okay, that's just downright mean.

13.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19560]Swampy, tell me what the toms who traveled 500 yards were expecting to find when they got within 20 yards of our calling, came through the cedars and saw a hen decoy and then bolted.

I just keep scratching my head. "What did you think you'd find Mister?"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19562]



A better personality?[/QUOTE]



Now that is downright mean.

14.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19564]I think that if a turkey has a long look at a still decoy it is going to suspect something is up. So we were throwing some ideas around of a little device you can put in the body of your existing decoy, activate/deactivate it from the blind and it vibrates.[/QUOTE]

I see you out there googling.

15.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19564]I think that if a turkey has a long look at a still decoy it is going to suspect something is up. So we were throwing some ideas around of a little device you can put in the body of your existing decoy, activate/deactivate it from the blind and it vibrates.[/QUOTE]

I believe there used to be something like that available commercially a while back, or maybe you couldn't remotely control it. Of course there's the sled thingie. There are battery-operated motion decoys, but I figure if you have to use a battery-operated decoy you might as well just hand in your man card and take up golf.

Of course, over the years I have rigged various dekes with paracord (rig a snap swivel in the chest, for example). Here's what I'm using now. I like it a lot. Takes a few minutes to set up, so I don't carry it for run-and-gun, but I suppose I could find a way in some cases. I didn't cross paths with any turkeys on the days I used it (just got it this year) but it's the cat's ass...

[url]http://turkeydecoysystem.com/[/url]

16.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19567]I see you out there googling.[/QUOTE]

LOL...No...but I want to say a gyroscope (?) or one of those balls that has something inside that continues to vibrate even though the ball itself is at rest---You've seen toys where the ball continues to move because of the internal vibration...Think cat toys, if not children's toys...

17.) Ventilator - 05/09/2014

Hey BC, Yes I do have a set of DSD`s and I really think they are awesome! I have the breeding pair. Jake and submissive hen. These have been used with success in Michigan, NC and Florida. Its worth saying that I never had any success whatsoever with dekes until I bought these. I had tried the cheap Cherokee inflatables and the HS series. SOme of it im sure had to do with inexperience on my part.

My two outfitter friends bought a set of DSD`s after I brought mine up for a hunt in 2012. Three toms flogged the hell out of my jake until I stuck one with an arrow. They had been running flambeau and HS dekes for 5-7 years prior. They , and their clients , killed 27 birds in 3 weeks using the DSD set . This was during the last 3 weeks of the May 2012 season. They said it was triple the amount of birds they had ever shot over dekes. In addition, they only had 2 toms spook from the set. Not sure how many they killed last year and this year, but, they told me the Jake has a chitload of shotgun pellets and gobbler blood on it. lol . I took that as a damn good test of the effectiveness.

As for the brand, Avian makes a very good deke as well. They are a little heavier than the DSD from what ive seen.

18.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

Swamp, I have a decoy that I rigged up with some decoy anchor line but I start to feel like a three-ring circus. One hand on the bow, diaphraphm call in, one hand moving that decoy (Go Pro Camera running---just kidding on that)

I have the Avian but I want a breeding hen...you know, black stockings, garter, pushup...come and get it boys.

19.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

Swampy, I watched the video, I'm afraid that I would get tangled up in all of that and trip and fall and cry real loud. I would also be tempted to make some turkey snares out around 30 yards so when they hang up while watching all of this, I have a chance.

Just kidding. Who really nos all this stuff anyway?


Note: if you need a CD to teach you how it works, it might not be simple enough.

20.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

What I need is a breeding hen that [B]doesn't[/B] move but just bats her eyelashes.

21.) Hunter - 05/09/2014

Here's a video of one of our hunters here on the ranch this year. I don't think decoys need movement. But, i do think mature turkeys will shy away from them if they have seen them before or have been shot at near one. That is kind of what I see here.
Also, we have good success just using a fan ourselves. Just sitting in a brush blind and reaching out and fanning a couple of times where they can see it has brought them right in.

[video=youtube_share;xBliNZhAE0w]http://youtu.be/xBliNZhAE0w[/video]

(sorry, sound got off track when I uploaded it)

22.) Hunter - 05/09/2014

Here's another video from this year. Used a decoy and also fanned from the blind....

[video=youtube_share;qCRSKQb1IW4]http://youtu.be/qCRSKQb1IW4[/video]

23.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

If I can get the turkey to a position where I can see him at thirty yards or under before he sees the decoy, or figures he should see a hen, I figure I don't need a decoy.

If the turkey has to see the decoy to close a considerable distance (such as in an open bottom or on a field, pasture or other open space) then I'll use one, but I still want him to hunt for the calling bird (rather than just be close to the deke). Not always possible to get those two things to go together. it depends on ground cover, brush, pinch points, etc. That's where deke movement is so important, I think. Once he's close to the deke and there's no movement from either "the calling bird" (which he can't see) AND no movement from the deke that he can plainly see, he gets suspicious, and rightly so.

In open areas, I think a gobbler can easily decide an area's not worth investigating from 100+ yards away if he doesn't see motion. Don't ask me how I know, LOL.

When in doubt, I skip the decoy. Some years I don't use them at all. If I can, I'll make the gobbler hunt me rather than make myself wonder about all the things you can wonder about when using dekes. I know bowhunters think they need the gobbler to hang around to get a shot, and that's why they insist on using dekes in close quarters, but I think sometimes you get more time if the gobbler has to continue to look (and wonder) rather than if he pops out and sees something he may or may not like.

24.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19574]Swampy, I watched the video, I'm afraid that I would get tangled up in all of that and trip and fall and cry real loud. I would also be tempted to make some turkey snares out around 30 yards so when they hang up while watching all of this, I have a chance.

Just kidding. Who really nos all this stuff anyway?


Note: if you need a CD to teach you how it works, it might not be simple enough.[/QUOTE]


LOL...It's simpler than it looks.

Remember, people laughed at DaVinci's helicopter, too. :wink

25.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19578] but I think sometimes you get more time if the gobbler has to continue to look (and wonder) rather than if he pops out and sees something he may or may not like.[/QUOTE]


I'm thinking this may be my answer. I still want to try a life-like breeding hen too.

Those breeding hens are low profile and really can't be seen until the tom gets a little closer so you are getting the best of both worlds.

26.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=Hunter;19576]

(sorry, sound got off track when I uploaded it)[/QUOTE]


LOL...I thought the kid (?) might have blown the roof off the blind when the gun went off and the turkey continued to look around, LOL...Pretty cool to see him stand up on top of the hen to get a better look.

27.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19580]I'm thinking this may be my answer. I still want to try a life-like breeding hen too.

Those breeding hens are low profile and really can't be seen until the tom gets a little closer so you are getting the best of both worlds.[/QUOTE]


That's a velly intellesting idea...

28.) Swamp Fox - 05/09/2014

Hunter....Cool double!

If I ever saw that many easterns standing around in full strut at one time, I believe I'd just call it quits and have my heart attack right there...There'd be nothing else left to live for. :-)

29.) DParker - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=bluecat;19575]What I need is a breeding hen that [B]doesn't[/B] move but just bats her eyelashes.[/QUOTE]

That's got a Henny Youngman "Take my wife...please!" joke written all over it.

30.) Deerminator - 05/09/2014

[B]AN UGLY HEN [/B]:grin:

[QUOTE=bluecat;19560]Swampy, tell me what the toms who traveled 500 yards were expecting to find when they got within 20 yards of our calling, came through the cedars and saw a hen decoy and then bolted.

I just keep scratching my head. "What did you think you'd find Mister?"[/QUOTE]

31.) Ventilator - 05/09/2014

[QUOTE=Swamp Fox;19583]Hunter....Cool double!

If I ever saw that many easterns standing around in full strut at one time, I believe I'd just call it quits and have my heart attack right there...There'd be nothing else left to live for. :-)[/QUOTE]

swampy, surely you haven't forgotten the 14-15 Merriams in full strut on that cedar creek bottom in Nebraska?? Epic!

32.) bluecat - 05/09/2014

Hey venti-juicer, do you think that Dave Smith breeding hen would fit on a lazy susan? :wink

33.) crookedeye - 05/09/2014

I thought we went over all this stuff last season?

34.) crookedeye - 05/10/2014

....

this would be a pretty fun way.

35.) crookedeye - 05/10/2014

[QUOTE=Hunter;19577]Here's another video from this year. Used a decoy and also fanned from the blind....

[video=youtube_share;qCRSKQb1IW4]http://youtu.be/qCRSKQb1IW4[/video][/QUOTE]

fanned them from the blind??? that only would have blinded them..i can only imagine that hairy old ass sticking out of the blind...yuck...:grin: lol..

36.) crookedeye - 05/10/2014

fanning from the blind..is that only to aggrevate them more??

37.) L&L - 05/11/2014

Hey guys all this talk about breeding hens is gonna put someone in rut!

38.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

Nooooo....please don't tell me youre back...:wink

39.) NEBigAl - 05/11/2014

My supervisor has a decoy thats about 20 years old, but he spends a few hours each year touching it up. Its got almost all real turkey feathers and is painted up awesome, and he sure does seem to have an easy time getting turkeys in.

40.) Deerminator - 05/11/2014

pics of your supervisors decoy

41.) Hunter - 05/11/2014

[QUOTE=crookedeye;19594]fanning from the blind..is that only to aggrevate them more??[/QUOTE]

Just like barracudas, they are attracted to shiny things! :grin:

42.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

hunter you see when they drafted the first official ever gay guy??? sam I think his name was.. in the nfl??? that was horrific...l kept thinking that poor little skinny white boy.. I guess Obama's going to give a speech about it Monday...

43.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

its a mentally sickness like a mass murderer or a rapist, child molester...

Floyd billy what do you guys think??

44.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

this country is halfway down the sewer....

45.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

god didn't intend for that thing to fit in there...


trust me Floyd knows...

46.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

how are those Chicago bears going to do this year??

47.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

I need to get back on track since Floyd started talkin all this gay chit...

I have every decoy a hunter could have.. I have the dave smith decoys, avian..a-way outdoors skirt of feathers. some times they work...some times they don't..

48.) crookedeye - 05/11/2014

its what are media tell's us,,,thats why Hillary will win.. I mean I like her she's a firery old ***&..

49.) Ventilator - 05/12/2014

Now see bluecat, when CE speaks, no need for any other opinions. You have the gospel right there!

50.) bluecat - 05/12/2014

Yeah, I just read through the comments and I'm just scratching my head.

The bottom line is I think I'm dumping all my decoys up to this point. Get a Dave Smith breeding hen and call it good. No more excuses...about decoys that is.

51.) Ventilator - 05/12/2014

that breeding hen Is a good idea I think. The jake is good for a just in case situation.

52.) Deerminator - 05/12/2014

What's better than one breeding hen;
YEP!!!
2 or 3 breeding hens.

53.) L&L - 05/13/2014

[QUOTE=crookedeye;19603]Nooooo....please don't tell me youre back...:wink[/QUOTE]of course I am CE